i work with dogs that have bitten.....its my passion not my profession...you name it ,iv worked with them all...im the guy who belives there is a second chance for all living things,in most cases....some dogs cant be rehbilited and that bothers me ...blood lines usually.i do my best to see that they live...time and effort ,its my lifes calling ,i guess, give them what they deserve...a good life ,manage them and see it through there eyes ,be resonsable....good one !!!...phil

well said Shona ...in the right hands......phil

Work wise i had 2 aggressive gsds who i had to pass out to gain my trainer qualification - one (white) bit me every day even asking for something as simple a sit - he had to be walked on a tether chain round his lead and was just a general git - the day before passout he opened my arm and bruised all my hand - he still passed out though, someone else had to handle him - he was put to a unit with a very experienced handler but was put down within a short space of time for being too aggressive (he knocked my confidence for a long time and i still would not have a white gsd for love nor money). The other is still at work - i had him as a work dog for a while but he was crazy and would go nuts and just attack me for no reason - he was given to a guy with a lot of experience who has been bitten by him but won't let him better him.

I also had a rescue gsd who was great - Taur. Long coat black and gold - he attacked me twice and knocked my confidence but my mate (vet nurse and psychologist) said there was more to this and we got him autopsied after him being pts and he had a tumour on his brain - so that wasn't his fault.

I had one dog in Kuwait - he was handled by my mate - he jumped and bit my stomach then my mate injured himself and i had to take over this dog - do you know - we were the best of buddies and he came everywhere with me. He wasn't a loving, cuddly type dog but he was the most loyal friend in a horrid environment.

a nice heartwarming thread about how people have turned dogs lives around. great

dawn, i agree that people agression must be much harder to deal with, i did meet the sweetest huggy little dog the other week, they said he had been v people fear agressive, they just used lots of people ignoring the dog and randomly dropping treats

i think if you can work out the trigger and the dog gives you warning then it will be much easier than a dog who dosent give any warning

Those aren't methods I would use (although I like CM).

Excellent topic for a thread, Shona

It is interesting reading who has actually had hands-on experience with aggressive dogs, be it dog/dog or dog/human aggression.

I often find it amazing how many people are happy to jump on the bandwagon of slating Cesar Millan, Dog Borstal programmes, etc, etc. yet have never actually met or had to handle a dog with any serious problems. It is one thing to slate CM, Dog Borstal, or other behaviourists methods if indeed that person has never had to deal with it themselves. It is easy to be an armchair behaviourist/trainer/etc. and dish out advice via a forum that is very much "never do this, never do that" but it is an entirely different thing for those in a situation dealing with a dog with serious "issues".

I've handled and dealt with numerous dogs that have shown aggression. I actually find the hardest dogs to deal with are those that only occasionally "snap" and that the reasons for the dog to "snap" are a bit fuzzy around the edges. Sometimes owners will get in touch but can't really offer any clear reasons or situations in which a dog will "snap". Those are usually the most difficult to resolve.

Dogs that are out and out aggressive (be it towards humans or dogs or other animals in general) tend to be a lot more predictable so I can intercept their actions either just prior to them "snapping" or just the moment they go to "snap".

Working in an animal rescue role, I sadly have seen a LOT of dogs with serious problems, all of whom sadly end up getting PTS. It is simply the policy of the organisation I work for. It isn't my decision. Given the time and finances required to keep dogs boarding with us for periods of time that would enable us to tackle the dogs' behavioural problems, it simply isn't feasible. Sad, but true.

If I didn't have my 18 month old child to think of, I'd probably end up taking a few of them home to rehabilitate in my own home but this isn't usually feasible, practical or generally a good idea so I have to force myself not to at times.

I really couldn't begin to list all the dogs I've handled with aggression problems. They have ranged from toy breeds - a particularly snappy JRT springs to mind here whom I was involved with during my time as Head Kennel Assistant at a Boarding Kennels. (Like someone has said before me - sorry, forgotten who - when dogs are boarded with you, sometimes their owners aren't even aware of their dogs bad habits when left in boarding kennels but they still have to be cleaned out, exercised, etc. so there is no getting around the fact they need to be handled). Equally, as my time as a Head Kennel Assistant at this particular boarding kennels, I had two 14 month old Rottweilers to contend with. It was their first trip to boarding kennels and they were a little apprehensive (although didn't show it to the unsuspecting eye). They were good as gold when they were dropped off. Then by the time their owner had left the carpark they turned into barking, snarling, frothing at the mouth, large, chunky dogs who actually sent two people running out of reception area at the time (two other clients who had come to pick up their dogs).

Again, these had to be handled and dealt with. Typically, my bosses were going away on holiday themselves the day after these Rotties had been dropped off and as I was the only other worker there at that time it was muggins here who was left to deal with them My boss did warn me to be careful and "worse case scenario" to let them out in a large run area, that way I'd not have to actually take them for a walk if they weren't friendly by this point.

It took about 4 days (of them lunging at me, snarling, frothing at the mouth, etc) before one day they both stopped and became best of buddies with me. What did I do? I simply spent the previous 4 days attempting to not show any fear or be remotely bothered by their "threatening" behaviour. Of course, deep down inside, I was a bit apprehensive as, at the time, I'd not really done much behavioural work and I certainly wasn't trained to handle aggressive dogs at all. I just had to do what came naturally. The fact that I was working alone with these two dogs (and I'm only ickle myself - these dogs towered over me when they were lunging at me), naturally put me a little at unease but I didn't show it to them (that I know of ) Patience won out in the end. The owner was amazed to hear the tale about how they'd behaved for 4 days when they came back from their hols and saw the dogs all over me (in a friendly manner)

Then there was a regular dog that came in usually once a month for a few days, sometimes twice a month. He was a 9 year old Collie who had been used as a working dog but had recently retired. He had a funny little habit whereby if you'd try and touch his collar he'd go for your arm/hand. Again, slow movements won out in the end but he'd do this every time he was there so he never was "cured". It was something the owner just lived with and I, as Kennel Assistant, just lived with it too. Then there was a Rough Collie who hated anyone trying to put a lead on him (be it slip lead or attempting to clip a lead to his collar). He'd swirve out of the way, then go in for the kill.....

Many more that I won't go in to here as I'll end up with R.S.I.!

Since working as a Behaviourist, I've handled my fair share of dogs with aggression problems. I agree - dog/dog aggression is easier to deal with in the capacity that it isn't as stressful for the owners/handler as there isn't that constant worry that you'll lose your hand/arm(!) But, by the same token, sometimes it can be harder to deal with as, when you're out and about, you can't always predict what OTHER dogs are going to do that you meet outside. So in that manner, it can be trickier to deal with.

Each and every case has to be handled as an individual case and no two cases are ever exactly the same. The triggers can be similar but ultimately nearly always end up being different to even seemingly identical cases.

No two breeds are the same either. Toy breeds can be handled differently to extra large breeds. For example, if I ever even contemplated doing an "alpha roll" on a Rottie then I'd inevitably come off worse because I'm only a mere 5 foot 3 and a bit in height and don't weigh much So, although I adore the "Dog Whisperer" programmes and truly admire CM, I've never done an "alpha roll" myself.

Really interesting post. Reppies coming your way

Your words quoted above are so true. Though I don't have any aggression issues with my current dogs, I have had aggression (dog/dog) with my old Bichon many years ago. If CM had been around then, I would have had it so much easier. A bit of "calm assertive" going my Holly's way would have helped so much. Instead, I'd be flapping and worrying myself silly about anything "causing" trouble between the two girlies I had then (the other dog was a tiny Yorkie and though she was feisty, always ended up on the receiving end). In the end, I just had them spayed (which helped) and kept everything out of sight, i.e. toys, treats, etc. It was sometimes a nightmare though

You were quite brave to tackle some of those dogs in the Kennels. I would have run a mile

Hi Sarah, what an odd statement, how do you know this? It may be that most people who have expressed a dislike of the methods used by CM have had experience of aggressive dogs and found better ways of dealing with them than those he uses and I don't think anyone should presume otherwise unless they have information to the contrary .

Ace, glad you have helped out these dogs

Dont know where you are getting the idea that people against CM have never handled agressive dogs?? From what I have seen on these forums there are lots of people on here who have rehabilitated agressive and abused dogs using positive methods
There are also people on here who in the past have used methods like CM's but as behavioural science has moved on and provided us with positive ways to work their dogs they have moved on to them and found them more effective

as said before I am currently, succesfully treating dog dog agression and many other issues using positive methods

Ceasar gives you the impressoin that you can handle any situation,just like him...hummmmm not so,IMO..but does give you insight to problems,there are no right and wrong ways to correct,as there are as many dogs with lots of problems...its a bout passion as far as im concerned...seeing it through and having the dog YOU want.....one of my dogos will not sit on comand...im ok with that ...its not a problem for me,is she well trained?yes....for me......i find some correction problems to be pointless and some very serieouse....a good balanced dog is what we all strive for ...me.. i pick my battles with training....my smartest well trained dog is a couch potato.....thee are no tricks to speek of just regular common sence stuff...thats what makes a well behaved dog..... imo....ps dont challange a dog unless you are prepared to be challanged .....good thread folks,respectfully ...phil