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Sarah27
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22-01-2009, 05:21 PM
I agree BD. If she'd ever shown any aggression to people I don't think I would have felt confident enough to keep on fostering her.
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Loki's mum
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22-01-2009, 05:26 PM
Only two. Ellie who is fear aggressive towards other dogs. She used to go totally hyper and bite the nearest thing, too, which was very often people. Her owners were covered in bites! She once bit through my coat on a walk, as we were crossing a road and a car was coming fast so we had to run. That was all it took to get her hyper. I spent about five minutes by a busy road with a loopy German Shepherd biting at my back and shoulders. Not my best day!

We help Ellie through positive methods only, as anything else will trigger her reactions, so we have been clicker training. She is coming along well, but still can't be trusted with other dogs. Every time we think we are getting somewhere someone will allow their dog (usually the small 'cute' type) to lunge, bark and terrorise her. Just because she is big, people allow small dogs to have a pop at her, anyway I digress...

The other one is Jake who is a resource guarder. He is mostly OK with other dogs, unless he finds a ball, bottle, stick or anything really then he really goes off on one.

I now walk Jake on his own, and he either stays on lead or trails a long line. I wouldn't trust him not to bite me if he found something either. I spoke to his owner but she seemed unconcerned. She gives the old 'well he's a rescue dog' excuse. They've had him for six years and not dealt with any of his issues. He is a lurcher x staffie (probably).
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JoedeeUK
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22-01-2009, 07:59 PM
More than I care to remember & every one is different. Staying calm & positive & try to give out confidence & taking things very slowly to remove the fear(because most aggressive dogs are frightened). I like to introduce T Touch massage & calming techniques.

I've only met one or two over 50 years that could not be turned around & that was because they had been abused & pushed to the limit & beyond
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mishflynn
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22-01-2009, 08:06 PM
My Nellie was very sharp as a youngster, very strong Bitch to Dogs & some People, until she was about two when we had worked through it.

Mav is a very Poscessive dog of me towards other dogs at times & this is something we are working on Controlling atm.

My Childhood dog toby was a complete nightmare with other dogs, as a singleton puppy with novice owners he could not read or react to other dogs, i learnt alot from him, mainley looking back things that can make a dog WORSE!

I also helped a eldery Lady with a rescue TerrierX who had bad agression issues with zero warning signs, we used to walk with my eldest bitch Tara, & use calm training methods to give him self confidence aound her & other dogs & a clear explanation of what was acceptable.
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ClaireandDaisy
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22-01-2009, 08:11 PM
Aggressive? Moi?

It was a brilliant trainer at the Anti-social dog class at Essex Dog Training Centre (now sadly disbanded) who saved us. I wandered in under the impression Daisy was fear aggressive. Ar you sure? he said, as she lanched her self at his throat (muzzled thank heaven). Not fear aggressive but arrogant, unsocialised and untrained. He showed me how to get back control and teach her to defer to me to control our space - calmly, kindly and firmly. And only to give praise or reward when she was doing what I wanted.
His method was very simple. Ask the dog to sit, in the correct position, slightly behind the line of the handlers legs. Then the dog is rewarded. The trigger is introduced at a distance. Dog goes loopy. Dog eventually is got back in the sit where he was (without comment or speech) and is then rewarded. Eventually the dog gets it, and the distance is decreased, then the dog is introduced to the trigger when on the move etc. Each reaction is met with a calm insistence on a correct sit. In other words, the handler takes charge. In Daisy`s case he would back into her space and just stand there till she stopped trying to kill him then to her chagrin tickle her ears, call her a good girl and wander off.
When I went back with a tale of woe saying she was regressing he told me to stop going walking and do training instead. problem solved - well, up to a point.
I`d like to add that I emailed every `behaviourist`m, trainer and club within travelling distance...and no-one even responded. If I hadn`t found this club I don`t know what I`d have done.
I also found `Understanding and Handling Dog Aggression` by Barbara Sykes invaluable, especially on the dark days.
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Meg
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22-01-2009, 09:20 PM
Very interesting stories lovely to read and not an 'illusion collar'/poking finger/ kicking foot or alpha roll in sight !
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Ramble
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23-01-2009, 09:36 AM
We had a pup who displayed 'aggression' (snarling) a few times and I worked slowly with him, mainly around food and being told what to do when he really didn't want to do it. I did the usual with the food thing,slowly popping bits in his bowl etc and with him not wanting to do something, I checked my own behaviour and lured rather than told.

Biff has developed aggressive tendencies since losing his sight and losing Morris, who protected him a lot.It is totally fear based and totally a 'I'll get in there before you do' as his hips are so sore, he can't see and hear well. We initially treated him when another dog approached, which did work initially, the whole distraction thing, but it got to the point where he was looking out all the time, anywhere he had seen another dog. He was very very stressed which was aggravating his other conditions. I watched him carefully and spoke to several people (including a couple of vets) and we decided the best thing to do was not walk him anymore (he wasn't allowed off lead anyway as he has no sense and always leaps around...then suffers). The result is a much calmer dog around the house. My worry had been that his joints would stiffen up more with the lack of exercise, but actually he's been better as he's not 'looking for a fight' all the time and jumping, tensing etc.

I also volunteer at a rescue so meet allsorts. It isn't up to me to train them, but I do find that I can help to calm them initially by my approach/voice/body language...
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Tassle
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23-01-2009, 10:40 AM
Expanding one my other post (Sorry - I was in a rush )

First truely aggressive dog I dealt with was a Doberman. She was aggressive towards people (Lunging at anyone she saw). At the time I was working with a Behaviourist up country. He was dealing with her and invited me to come and help...Hindsight suggests I should have left it, but that was the point I truely realised the difference between a Behaviourist and a Trainer, bit of a turning point for me. I had always been a trainer (had done a Uni course in Behaviour studies, but its only a peice of paper!). I was terrified of this bitch but watching what the guy did and seeing how she responded was great. Eventually I took over the training side of things and she started coming to my agility classes, it was great seeing her 10 months down the line working off lead in an agility class. However, I would not now (knowing what I know) use the methods that he did.

Mainly (looking through notes) the Dog/human cases seem to be mainly spaniels. Although there are a couple of GSD's, a Husky cross and a couple of Terrier types.

Dog/dog aggressive, can't see any one breed sticking out. Just a good variety. The one that really sticks in my mind is a Boxer who would just throw herself and anything she saw with 4 legs, no build up. She is never going to be a social dog but her owner can now walk her without fear of her killing anything.

In the house....

Tassle has dog aggressive - it was fear based and totally my fault (again - the wonders of hindsight) she got to the point of defending her personal space - only her personal space expanded to about 30 foot in every direction. She was never motivated by food, I have had more problems getting her to eat that any dog I have ever owned or had to stay. In the end we went for tuggy toys (her lead specifically) I used the chillout game (before I knew that anyone else had documented it!) and we got her over that way.
She is nearly nine and will now quite happily walk past other dogs as long as they leave her alone, she will snap if they come too close but that is all it is now (before it was an out and out going to get you!)
If she is at a show she needs at least 1 1/2 hours in the situation before she is settled enough to work or she will just shut down.

Dog/human in the house....Polly and George....
Polly was a rescue that My mother brought home, she had been told off by her pervious owners for submissive weeing. THey would come home, get hold of her collar and smak her with the other hand, consequently if you went to tounch her she would go for the hand you extended and then turn on the other one instantly. Time, patience, a muzzle and a trail lead. Slowly intorducing her to new people but not allowing them to touch her.

George....well.....george has been the hardest. She went to a gentlemen you got her on an impulse as she looked like his last dog (she was at a rescue Kennel) He called her Georgie Girl (his last dog was george). He was working with Mum to help get her over some of her issues. He tied her up one day and she ran and caught her back leg under the rope and ripped it open. After a very traumatic time at the vets he took her home....only to feel sorry for her and take the hood off....she ripped herself open again and went back to the vets. They advised (on her behaviour that he have her pts) he couldn;t hear of it...and rang us. We were to have her while she was in recovery.....that was 10 years ago! If she went outside you couldn;t get her in, she wouldn;t go through doorways, she had all the attention seeking devices in the world and would then back into a corner and growl/snarl/lunge at you. NILIF and an umbilical cord helped, but this is cutting a very long story short because I seem to have gone on for hours!
Sorry
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ClaireandDaisy
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23-01-2009, 10:57 AM
Now this is a helpful thread! What strikes me is how diverse the problems are, and how much thought and care has gone into treating the dog, not the symptom.
Another one of mine- I was `given` a Hound from Greece. He was an ex-hunting dog, dumped when crippled. When his arthritis was better, it became clear that he was also dog aggressive, food aggressive and pulled like a train.
Because I`ve spent time abroad I`d seen these dogs work. They`re run on a harness, with the guys with guns tearing along behind. The lady who had him walked him on a harness so he did what he`d always done..run! He`d also had to battle for food and bitches and survival.
My dogs sorted out his food aggression and desire to be Boss in 10 seconds. They just told him he was lowest in the pecking order and he accepted that.
A half-check collar and walking backwards every time he pulled sorted that one (it did take a year though!)
Because he`d always had to fight for survival I could see he`d never learned to co-exist. So I muzzled him and took him every day to our local park where they all know me and explained what I was doing. Eventually he learned that other dogs were chums not competition and began to play. That was a lovely moment!
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Meg
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23-01-2009, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Joedee
More than I care to remember & every one is different. Staying calm & positive & try to give out confidence & taking things very slowly to remove the fear(because most aggressive dogs are frightened). I like to introduce T Touch massage & calming techniques.
I think the main theme running through this thread is that it is important to look at a dog as a whole and not just at the problem a dog may have, and as Joedee says staying calm and positive and taking things slowly at the dogs pace.

I learnt many years ago when working with a brutal kennel manager that using force on a dog is counter productive and creates more problems than it solves, and that fear which I think can often be the cause of aggression in dogs inhibits a dog's ability to learn

If a human is being taught to overcome a fear the standard treatment is desensitisation, gradually exposing the person to their fear at a level which can be tolerated. I think this works equally well with dogs .

ETA Thank you all for posting about your experiences , I really enjoyed reading about them
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