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Location: england
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,601
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27-05-2008, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Snorri the Priest 
So far, when I wish to register disapproval in a manner which the dog will accept (we're talking Border Collies here, so the procedure might not work for thick dogs
), I take the dog's chin in my hand, GENTLY, and tell him "Naughty, naughty dog! No (whatever it is he's doing)! No!"To date, I have had no repetitions and no bites, so I reckon it works.
But, of course, they ARE Border Collies, smartypants dogs
Snorri
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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27-05-2008, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by catrin
certainly feel passionate about choke chains and how great using reward based hands off training is because i have seen the results of both and know the research and evidence behind both methods. I really cannot understand how anyone could read and research into both types of methods and still decide to stay with devices such as choke chains.I have only joined this site fairly recently and love it - i had got disolused with reading the terrible advice on other sites about dominating your dog in order for it to behave well and have to say that it was a breath of fresh air to find a site where more progressive methods were being used by people with a wide range of breeds and types of dogs of different ages and with different backgrounds. The majority of the advice given here is far more up to date and kind compared to other sites. Thank you Dogsey!
Hi Catrin
many members on Dogsey are old enough to have lived through 'the dark ages' when dogs were routinely choked by chains and dragged about on leads 
most of us have found a better way of training dogs . There are still a few who choose to use them, and that is their choice. They appear to be in a minority (in this thread at least ... )To my mind good training is built on trust not fear , can a dog really trust someone who half chokes it. If I remember correctly one person advocated using a choke chain 'for no longer than ten mins' ,one miniute is a minute too long for me..
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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27-05-2008, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Hi Catrin
many members on Dogsey are old enough to have lived through 'the dark ages' when dogs were routinely choked by chains and dragged about on leads most of us have found a better way of training dogs . There are still a few who choose to use them, and that is their choice. They appear to be in a minority (in this thread at least ... )To my mind good training is built on trust not fear , can a dog really trust someone who half chokes it. If I remember correctly one person advocated using a choke chain 'for no longer than ten mins' ,one miniute is a minute too long for me..
to me if you use a choke chain, it should be for no longer than ten mins, if you still need it after that your not useing it right,
But with the correct training in place one should never be needed,
yes mini that would be me
my point being if you must use them,, then if you havent solved the problem within that time then your not going to,,, Its not what I would call advocating the useing a chain,,, 
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Location: cambridgeshire, UK
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 157
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27-05-2008, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by bajaluna
you are right I joined a obedience class with my current gsd
and my previous gsd both basic obedience in a vet clinic and both times I was chastised for not using a prong collar it was a requirement of joining the class,me being me said poff im not using it,but there were people there that were forced to buy one from the vet clinic because they didnt have one(and were too nice to say no)one I will always remember it was a 6 week old great dane and she screamed blue murder every week for 3 weeks while they were dragging her around on that collar,needless to say my dog didnt go to anymore classes in the us If thats what they are I want no part of it and noone can tell me those collars dont cause pain I saw itxxxx
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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27-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Shona
here is the post mini,
to me if you use a choke chain, it should be for no longer than ten mins, if you still need it after that your not useing it right,
But with the correct training in place one should never be needed,
yes mini that would be me
my point being if you must use them,, then if you havent solved the problem within that time then your not going to,,, Its not what I would call advocating the useing a chain,,,
I personally don't see the need for choke chains at all..
I don't think pain or fear should play any part in a dogs training,
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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27-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by bullyboy
they dont cause pain if used in the right way, but not many people do, its not the tool it the person behind it, paper can cause pain if you use it wrong
, sorry but I would have to disagree with you there.The whole point of a choke collar is that it is put it on like a noose, the chain is threaded through the ring so that as the dog pulls the chain tightens and the dog slackens its pace to ease the pressure on its throat.
Years ago I worked in large kennels with professional handlers and kennel managers who used choke chains routinely in training. One was an ex place dog handler so I think he knew how to put on a choke chain correctly.
If you think choking and gasping for breath is not painful I would advise you to try a choke chain for yourself , put one around your neck and get someone to pull it tight, I am sure it will not be a pleasant experience!
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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27-05-2008, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Hi Shona, you can do a lot of damage to a dogs trust in you in 10 minutes, each to his own I guess.
I personally don't see the need for choke chains at all..
I don't think pain or fear should play any part in a dogs training,
yes thats right mini, hence it far better to use possitive methods, rather than using quick fixes,
unfortunatly as a trainer many dogs walk in my door with chains on, its down to people like myself to educate owners on the problems casued by them, the injureys and so on, then to show them other ways to deal with dogs, I love liberty training, it build so much more of a bond with dogs than using collars and leads, I currently have a supper little beagle who is doing fab with this method,
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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27-05-2008, 08:46 PM
Bobo wore a choke chain in training the other night because that is what Bobo had when Emma got him, Emma is 23, her first dog and thought she was doing the right thing uing what Bobo was used to, as soon as we walked into the training shona said ditch that b..... choke chain ! and we have lol, she can be really frightening sometimes lol x
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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