yeah should be coming tomorrow or friday - like i say keen to move on as the choke not my ideal method even though I think ive used it properly with her - lots of people endorsing the halti so fingers crossed - bloody ebay though - i only went on their for a harness and bought half a dozen other things 5 of which im sure will never see daylight

oh where would that be?

I would say the thread title is a bit of a giveaway wouldn't you.

Minihaha, I wouldn't go that far, lol, I know a lot of people disapprove of Flooding as well as other methods I use which get quick results, but regards to Choke chains, I just think its a silly idea.

*'Scientist' has brain wave* "Aha - If the dog is in pain, he'll stop pulling, it must work because that's how a human would react! Therefore this chain will cause them to choke and it'll stop them, I don't need to research the thinking of the dog because it will work on humans"

Just a really bad idea in my opinion.

Everytime a dog goes for a walk, he is in 'hunt mode', everytime he leaves his den, he is hunting. He is exploring the world and the world has so many things to chase, sniff, smell and mark. A lead stops him doing any of that, a more aggressive lead will only put the dog in stress and more likely to cause yet more aggression if used improperly.

It's far more inhumane than that of a haltie, a haltie was at least designed with a dog in mind. The dog can only think about one thing in particular, when he pulls and the haltie pulls his head down, his thinking is immediately switched from looking to where he wants to go to suddenly having his head pulled down.

Even so, you will still be masking a problem that exists as opposed to solving it.

In order to have your dog walk side by side with you without pulling, he needs to learn two very basic things.

Firstly, you are leader, even during the 'hunt'. Being your dog's pack leader is essential for your dog to trust you when you are away from the den, if he doesn't have enough trust in you as a leader, he'll be the one calling the shots during the hunt, including the behaviour of leading you with the leash.

Before I walk any of my dogs, I make sure that they are relaxed and ready, saying "Walkies!" in my house doesn't get a knee jerk response of my dog bouncing off walls in anticipation of the hunt to follow and working himself into an absolute frenzy.

I get the leash and he gets a bit excited, I wait until he is calm before I put the leash on him, sometimes it'll take minutes, sometimes it'll take seconds. Taking an overexcited dog out on a hunt is not a good start to the walk

I then make sure that I walk through the door first and he sees me as the leader of him, when he is no longer excited and after I have walked through the door first, I beckon the dog through the door. Mentally, the dog is assured that I know how to lead him and that I am controlling the hunt, not him.

That's the core training I start all of my clients off with, it creates the bond between leader and follower.

Next, whilst on the hunt, the dog will decide that he wants to go where he wants to go, not where I want to go. If this is the case, loop the lead (a good 2m leash is always a help) with a circle, no tension should be placed on the lead. As soon as the dog starts to pull, drop the loop and turn 180 degrees and walk in the opposite direction to the dog, who will suddenly realise that he is going nowhere near where he wants to go.

Carry on walking in that direction and loop the leash again, if he pulls again, drop the loop and turn again. Some breeds will pick this up a lot quicker than others (I usually train Border Collie owners on myself before I let them train their dog as the dog will pick it up so so quickly).

Basically, the dog associates that pulling on the lead and walking in front will stop him going anywhere near where he wants to go, infact, he'll have to go the opposite way. This reinforces the truth that you are controlling where he goes, not him controlling where you go.

It can take a while but if you keep it consistent, you'll find that walking is a much more enjoyable experience. Even if you never make it to the park after spending an hour walking in straight lines back and forth, the dog will eventually understand that you are in control.

Hi Steve Yes I for one disagree with 'flooding' and I don't subscribe to the school of thought that says 'many of a dogs problems are due to dominince/you need to be the pack leader ' either . But I do agree with much of what you say here regarding training a dog not to pull without using a choke chain. There are other similar methods to the one you have posted too, it is good to have a range of ideas posted.

i havent read all 13 pages - but personally - i dont particularly like choke chains

admittidly - i tried sam's old half check on her last week - seeing if it mad a difference and tbh it dosent - training is the answer!!!!!!!!!!!

Please note this thread is about Choke chains, I have split the thread and moved the posts about various methods of training here..

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=87460I
Thank you