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Westie_N
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23-05-2008, 03:15 PM
Can I ask why do you use a harness on Bryan? Does he have any health concerns that require you to use a harness rather than a collar and lead?

I'm no behaviourist, however, I think that by using a harness means you have no control over where he looks when another dog is near, if you see what I mean. Harnesses are fitted around the strongest part of the dog body and I really believe than harnesses should only be used on working dogs, like working huskies on harness and for those dogs who have health concerns that means the dog cannot be worked on a flat collar and lead.

You could try putting a close-fitting flat collar on him, or material combi-collar, and when dogs are in the distance and coming towards you, get him to sit in front of you not facing the other dog and praise him as the dog gets closer or distract him in some way.

Or, take him to dog obedience classes where you can try to desensitise him with other dogs, then you might be able to work with him around other dogs. You may also be able to have Bryan sit or lie down in the middle of a training class and by doing this regularly may help desensitise him and make him realise that other dogs being around or coming near him is not a big deal.

Crossing the road when you see other dogs approaching may be adding to he problem as you could be perhaps sending him signals that other dogs approaching is something to be concerned about as he is taken away from them. You've probably already tried this, but could you possibly just try and walk straight by the other dogs quickly without talking or looking at him?

Or perhaps teach him to "look" at you in the house and garden etc, when other dogs aren't around, then progress to doing this when other dogs are around? Don't know if you use one, but a Halti or Gentle Leader may help you with this as although they can help with pulling, they also mean you have control of his head and where he is looking.

Just a few thoughts and some of the things I would try if I had a dog who did what Bryan does. Hope they are of help to you.
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MissE
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23-05-2008, 03:17 PM
Its the rapidity you can get with a clicker that helps here. I can get three of four clicks out as fast as I can say "good girl Missy" and when a dog is walking towards you all the time, time is of the essence. Every click that happens Missy knew she had done well and was getting a reward. It really is worth a try in fast changing situation - such as a dog coming towards you.
Doesn't take long for someone to teach it to you, either.

Fresh meat seems to do it best for my girl - turkey or liver. They beat even cheese, which we were told by her rescue was her favourite!
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ClaireandDaisy
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23-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Mayvren View Post
I am in the process of training my new GSD out of similar behavior. I work with a choker collar on my dogs. Snap it the minute he looks at the other dog. Snap it every time he makes to look at it or bark. Short snap, no long strangle like people who don't know who to use the collar do. Snap. It is only used to get attention. Keep walking past the other dog. Your in charge. Keep snapping the lead until he settles down.
yeah - `cos that`ll really make him friendly round other dogs - not! What is this obsession with sprays, rattles, chains, correctors, e-collars, citronella.....etc.? Why not just train your dog to do what you want using positive methods instead?
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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23-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by MissE View Post
Its the rapidity you can get with a clicker that helps here. I can get three of four clicks out as fast as I can say "good girl Missy" and when a dog is walking towards you all the time, time is of the essence. Every click that happens Missy knew she had done well and was getting a reward. It really is worth a try in fast changing situation - such as a dog coming towards you.
Doesn't take long for someone to teach it to you, either.

Fresh meat seems to do it best for my girl - turkey or liver. They beat even cheese, which we were told by her rescue was her favourite!
I agree that clicker training is great cos it marks exactly the behaiviour you want
Why would you want lots of clicks?? its one click then treat, the treat (once they are trained) does not need to come straight after the click but you dont click again till you have treated and there is something new to reward
if you keep on clicking without treating then the click is just becoming a background noise and the dog will zone it out

Never heard of rapid fire clicks

Good to have a mixture of treats too
Usualy when training I have high value - catering meat offcuts (thats a mix too) medium - dog treats and low - kibble (using up the old stuff)
High value is for something new or a really good or fast response
for the rest of the time I mix up what I give him so he has to guess what is comming - he knows there is good stuff in there just how to get it??
for something really good its 3 or 4 bits of high/medium mixed
and a good dollop of treats at the end of the sesh so he keeps wanting to work
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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23-05-2008, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
yeah - `cos that`ll really make him friendly round other dogs - not! What is this obsession with sprays, rattles, chains, correctors, e-collars, citronella.....etc.? Why not just train your dog to do what you want using positive methods instead?
Ahh that would be because the dog is supposed to have been born knowing how to walk on the lead and is just being bad - needs its spirit broken so it will do what it knows is the right thing
Neah no idea, its like people think the only way to fix a problem in a dog is to scare it and punnish it
thats what dad/grandad/bfriend did and it works
yeah sure it works, If I smacked you with a bit of 2x4 when you sat in my seat you would stop sitting in my seat but you would be a lot happier if I just asked you not to sit there
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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23-05-2008, 03:39 PM
Westie_N good post - I tried to give you reppies but it wont let me
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MissE
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23-05-2008, 03:40 PM
The "rapid fire" clicks we were told to do as the dog was approaching, so that every step it took nearer which Missy didn't react to, she got rewarded for. Approaching dogs aren't always slow, and we were rewarding for non reaction to every closer step it took.

Only time we ever used rapid clicks, because the situation warranted it. That's all.
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Sarah27
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23-05-2008, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Westie_N View Post
Can I ask why do you use a harness on Bryan? Does he have any health concerns that require you to use a harness rather than a collar and lead?

I use a no-pull harness on him. You're right I can't control where he looks with it, but on the collar he just chokes himself when he sees another dog. The harness has calmed him a bit and it's much easier to walk him when he's on it. It doesn't make him pull, he walks to heel most of the time when he's on his harness.

You could try putting a close-fitting flat collar on him, or material combi-collar, and when dogs are in the distance and coming towards you, get him to sit in front of you not facing the other dog and praise him as the dog gets closer or distract him in some way.

Yeah, I've tried that, the tainers tried that, it just doesn't work. He goes to his point of no return so wquickly that it's impossible to distract him. Even if it works at first, it doesn't stop him from going into full flow eventually. I've been trying for 12 months lol

Or, take him to dog obedience classes where you can try to desensitise him with other dogs, then you might be able to work with him around other dogs.

I took him to the DT training class to desensitize him on the advice of the behaviourist, but it was no good at all. The trainer politely asked us to leave as it was just too much for my dog to cope with.

Crossing the road when you see other dogs approaching may be adding to he problem as you could be perhaps sending him signals that other dogs approaching is something to be concerned about as he is taken away from them. You've probably already tried this, but could you possibly just try and walk straight by the other dogs quickly without talking or looking at him?

I do walk past other dogs if I can't get over the road, it's more concern for the other owner than for my dog that I cross the road.

Just a few thoughts and some of the things I would try if I had a dog who did what Bryan does. Hope they are of help to you.
Thanks for the help, I'm sure I'll get there in the end, and I take on board all you've said
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Sarah27
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23-05-2008, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by MissE View Post
The "rapid fire" clicks we were told to do as the dog was approaching, so that every step it took nearer which Missy didn't react to, she got rewarded for. Approaching dogs aren't always slow, and we were rewarding for non reaction to every closer step it took.

Only time we ever used rapid clicks, because the situation warranted it. That's all.

I think I'll try to find someone to teach me clicker training. I's a big problem when I come across someone with a dog round a corner, because I have to react so quickly. In that situation it's just about impossible for him not to bark.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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23-05-2008, 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Sarah27 View Post
I think I'll try to find someone to teach me clicker training. I's a big problem when I come across someone with a dog round a corner, because I have to react so quickly. In that situation it's just about impossible for him not to bark.
Ahh yeah corners
long mirror on a stick
how about getting him to sit and stay at the corner then you can have a look round and work on his obedience at the same time?

OK missE - if thats what the trainer said and it works fair nuff - not how I would use a clicker - but if it works it works
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