Magic Punishment 4 dogs..

Last week i bought two dog related books, 1- cesar millan aka the dog whisperer..My Way, which im half way through, its an excellent book.
2- A book tittled 'What if my dog..?'' ill have to get back with the authors name..anyway in the latter book, it has a section on punishing your dog, infact the tittle itself makes me uneasy, their is a 'punishment' the vet who wrote this book called ''magic punishment, apparently when your dog is misbehaving or doing something wrong, you are suposed to have hidden an object such as a beanie bag, or simular item, you are meant to quickly grab the bean bag and throw it and aim to ''hit'' your dog with it while saying no! Im not sure if its just me but i would feel very uneasy and cruel doing this, i dont agree with throwing any item soft or hard at any dog, surely this cant be the norm???
Also in his book their are many other topics/advice that makes me uneasy.
What do you think about this 'magic punishment'..?.. would you throw a hidden object at your dog to hit him as a punishment/training tecnique?
thanks x

I know a dog I have`nt seen for ages. I saw her this week. She has been going to obedience training with a gundog trainer who uses that awful item throwing `method` - including for recall of all things, he has people throw something at their dogs if recall is`nt done `correctly` enough :smt075 including dogs running past a few steps from just not slowing down in time. What a brilliant way to teach a dog not to get within range...

The dog is completely different to how she was when I last saw her a few months ago. She is now literally a nervous trembling wreck, with eyes so `flat` its just not her any more. She used to be inquisitive and interested in meeting new people and dogs, and very polite with it.
Not any more
Now that I am back in regular contact with her owner again I will do my utmost to stop him going to the idiot trainer anymore and to get her back to how she used to be
As for Milan, he`s vile imo, everything he does is about dominance and force, but he suckers people in and convinces them that their dogs are doing great - while being yanked around on his wretched `one size fits all` choke chain. I would`nt let that creep within ten miles of my dogs. If I could I`d buy a remote island and have him, and certain other self styled guru type so called `trainers` sent away there permanently - if I had my way they would never get to set eyes on another dog.

Somewhere with a load of apes living there which would pelt `magic punisher` coconuts at their sort would be ideal

UG! Thats archaic and dangerous. You run the risk of your dog associating that scary thing hitting them with you, or with whatever is in the dogs line of sight at the time, another dog, a child, whatever. They can develop phobia and fear based aggressions with this method. I took Moxie to a training class where the "trainer" would carry an extra choker chain and when the dog's attention wandered, she would throw the chain at the dog, the theory being that the dog would think, "If I stop looking at my owner, something scary will pop out of no where and hit me" Well that worked for crap. All of her dogs were high strung and neurotic and looked absolutely miserable when they were working.

I never punished my dog while I was training her (thats not to say I didn't correct her, I just didn't punish her) and she is absolutely the perfect dog. She doesn't get into trouble, I never have problems with her of any sort and she LOVES to work, be it in obedience or agility or whatever we are doing, she is happy and wagging the whole time, not slinking along and cowed like this "trainers" dogs were.

End rant.

I Agree..i wouldnt use this magic punishment or in english 'throw something hard enough to make a point..at your dog thing!!
also id like to point out i did Not read this in cesar millans book, i read and quoited it from the other book tittled ''what if my dog..?''
Re cesar, everyone entittled to there opinion but from what ive seen read about cesar i trhink he is a good soul, he never hits or hurts a dog he only corrects it with a sharp touch, yes he is always quoting about dominance ect..but through him being a confident, dominant 'pack leader' he is able to control and create harmony among his own 'pack' of 50 plus dogs, dogs of all breeds n sizes from little chis to pit bulls n rotties.. he can take his pack for a walk/run on the beach or the mountains without needing to have leads on them all. He trys to teach people that its all about ''energy'' if you are nervbous or scared you will project that feeling/energy onto your dog therefore the dog will react to that energy, but if you try remain in a calm assertive energy your dog will also feel calm. I do agree that the human should be and needs to be the pack leader, i dont think a dog should be in charge of the humans that can only cause problems.
Saying all that, im no expert, and i knoiw full well with my dogs especially my yorkie im not as firm as cesar would say i should be.
I have watched many shows of cesar in the dog whisperer and he does seem to get results, he seems to get into the dog, he sees it like a dog would, not like a human 'thinks' a dog sees it!
Anyway as you can tell by my ''im a cesar fan..lol'' words above im going off the original topic.. so ill now stop ranting about cesar.lol

Can i ask do you all agree or disagree with the method used in training were a plastic bottle is filled with m arbles or stones and when the dog is doi8ng something wrong you supossed to shake the bottle making a very loud noise to shock the dog into stopping its behaviour ?
Anyway back to the op question x

No I wouldn't throw anything at my dog...I tend to have retrieving breeds anyway so they'd just catch it.(Sorry trying to make light).
No I don't believe in the use of the rattle bottle.

I am not a Cesar fan at all. His approach to training is too 'one size fits all' for my liking. Same diagnosis and methods regardless of individual dog. However, each to their own. But if you are interested in reading widely on the subject (as you appear to be), I can recommend 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson and 'Bones Would Rain from the Sky' by Suzanne Clothier.

And no, I have never and would never throw things at my dogs. I prefer to try to teach correct behaviour with rewards rather than using aversives of any kind, which would include a rattle bottle.

I only ever used one method that was similar to the above. It was when I first got Fudge and I was soooo naive about training, I used the air spray bottle to stop her from barking constantly at the rabbits. It worked, but has left Fudge very sound sensitive and we now have to deal with that, I would never recomend it to anyone else.

I too dislike CM. my friend is a trained behaviourist and says his methods are outdate ans sometimes dangerous,
It wouldnt work with Welshies anyway there far to sensitive.

Ceasar Milan uses a choker high under the ears to gain control of dogs, this is one of the most sensitive areas for a dog & he uses this method to subtlely inflict pain to make the dog obey. He was running a dog on one of these whilst cycling(in a very quiet street)the dog looked very uncomfortable & was showing the whites of it's eyes in fear/pain. Dogs do not try to dominant humans-dominance in dogs is about breeding rights & dogs are aware no matter what CM says that humans are not dogs & not part of the canine pack.

I wouldn't use anything to hit, throw @ a dog nor rattle @ them. I've used training discs which are thrown behind a dog to distract them from unwanted behaviour-but you do have to be careful that they do not work as a threat.

I use a reward system & have done so successfully on all types/sizes of dogs for many years. The system is very simple-the dog does what I want when told it gets a reward-it doesnt do what I want it doesn't get rewarded. Dogs are not stupid they cotton on very quickly to what gets a reward & what doesn't

Oh my goodness, I had never heard of this guy before, what a dreadful way of traing a dog thats awful!!!! Icon is the forth dog I have had, and I have clicker trained them all, even Icon at 11 weeks old knows that as soon as I get my clicker out it means treats he knows so much through this positive method, I don't understand why some trainers still use such an out of date approach.