Please read my posts again. I did not say he was dim for herding. He has always, in comparison to every other Shepherd I have had, be slower to learn, everything! And just generally. He's gentle, easy going and beautiful but he's not particularly smart. He's the one that takes a little longer to figure stuff out.

We discourage ANY herding by any of them. They have plenty of toys, they have plenty of exercise. We distract him from wanting to herd anything with other things he enjoys i.e toys etc.


We are not supporters of electric collars. This was a last resort for this dog and after trying many other approaches. I have never used one before and was very wary and took professional advice. Please don't think I used that lightly.

As for the 'Pack' thing. We don't live by it but I expect respect from my dogs. The walking through doors first was just an example. We use more modern 'usual' training. It has always worked for us. Our dogs are polite, pleasant dogs to have around and take out. As I said, they have all attended training classes from puppies to young dogs. We only stopped as we move to an area where there were none in a reasonable distance that were suitable. All three have their Good Citizen Silver awards - they are hardly hooligans.


While this is a lovely idea, it's not practical. Local shelters are bursting at the seams with dogs in a country gripped by recession. People can't give away a dog. Let alone one that has to have special treatment.

They might have done something 'natural' but I live in an area with plenty of livestock very local to me plus we still have the other sheep so no, here, while I have doubts about them they can never be off lead again.

Tbh, the PAC collar, in my eyes has failed so I would not assume it would work to stop them attacking another animal. The dogs effectively have a large fenced run within the barn which they are limited to when we are not with them. The sheep wanders around the garden. It could be fenced out.

I use either treats or just affection as a reward to run through exercises as a game - they love it. They love the 'Stay Game' for example. I put them in sit or down and leave them as I walk down the field. They all do distance commands so when I stop they will sometimes have some commands, sometimes they are just called to heel. We play 'Heel' which is when they heel, sitting as I stop. Turning as I turn. They all love doing the exercises. They swim most days too and we play 'Fetch' with sticks in the river. Just basic exercises for fun but it keeps on top of the manners.

I don't know what I think about them with my son. It's the shock of them doing something so out of character that has made me worry about his proximity to them.


As above. We pay some attention to that approach but we use more usual training methods.

It was an example. Just one. I would never expect that sort of thing to be the be all and end all of dog training. I am not a total idiot.

I didn't know people watched their dog every single second of the day for a start. I literally do not have time to do that and never have. I don't actually know anyone who does - clearly we are all totally unsuitable owners. Do you keep your eye on your dog(s) every minute, while they are at home in an enclosed space ? Never looking away ? If you do I wish I had the luxury of your life.

I live in a rural community. Atm you couldn't give away a picture of a dog. Let alone 2 large breed dogs who have to be always lead kept.

This makes me a bit angry frankly. Why should the ewe be rehomed ? It did nothing wrong. And why should my son loose HIS pet so I can keep mine ? Why is the sheep less important than the dogs ? Tbh, if the ewe was to go it would be to the butchery. She wouldn't survive in a flock. They were hand reared by us and would come when called by their names (they knew their own names as much as they dogs do) and were completely tame.

Just because it's a sheep it's ok for it to have died a hideous agonising death ? I don't want that for any animal I own. It's quite hard to rehome a sheep. They aren't for everyone, they also need to have a flock number (yes - for just one sheep!) tagging protocols, movement documentation, veterinary documentation by law. They are not easy to rehome.

I don't dispute that we can change things so the remaining ewe and the dogs have no contact. However, I also have to consider what happens if they DO get loose and in with the sheep again. If they are safe for me to walk in my own fields off lead. Fields adjacent to other livestock.

There are but they all need consideration. Including having the dogs PTS.

ETA - I am also not the sort of person to move problems on. I wouldn't give away a horse with a behavioural issue and am even less inclined to give away a dog with one. I would worry for ever more about whether it was ok or if it hadn't been handled properly and had hurt someone or something. If I can't guarantee their safe housing here (I am not going to shoot my own dogs but believe you me, farmers that saw them in with their stock in this area, would. On sight) then I would have them PTS.

Dogs that kill sheep or worry livestock are not taken lightly. Mine actually caused a death. Dogs have been pts for just worrying animals. The fact I am considering other options and didn't have them pts that afternoon is not the norm here.

I lived with 2 dogs that would attack and kill sheep, we were not told that one was a sheep worrier when we adopted her. We found out the hard way and she took the other with her who had no problem with sheep previously.

We lived with these 2 dogs for 12 years, they never got the chance to attack again even though we often camped in fields with sheep in who would come right up to our door.

You don't need to watch your dogs every minute of the day, you just need to make sure they can't get to them but that can be expensive.

You asked for advice but didn't like it so have attract them, these people tried to give you the help you asked for but you have attracted them.

Angela Stockdale has had a lot of success with dogs and livestock but it will cost a lot of money.

How absolutely awful for you. So shocking when dogs act differently to how we expect them to or out of character as yours did. It is very sobering when we witness our dogs behaving like wild animals and doing things that we unconsciously believe they weren't capable of doing.

I don't have any advice except to say - give it a day or two, maybe even a week or two whilst trying out different ways of keeping the dogs separate and contained. You may find it easier than you think. I think having one or maybe even two of the dogs pts could be just as traumatic to you and your young son as losing the sheep.

I don't think that you should have to watch your dogs every second of the day, that's not what I was saying...but as this isn't possible then they have to be put away somewhere safe or on lead...or the sheep out somewhere safe when you can't watch them.

It makes you angry me suggesting that the sheep be rehomed as a solution to your issue...and it makes me angry seeing that you are even considering euthanising a healthy dog because if this one terrible act! You don't have to rehome locally there are plenty of rescues (Breed specific and not) who would be willing to transport the dog/s to another area through a network of volunteers doing transport runs.

You said that you don't think the dogs could be let off again.. You could try to rehome in a place less local. Not every town has a lot of livestock. You could explain that the dogs killed a sheep and that you can not live with that risk, as many owners know the feeling of dog killing or going at a sheep. They would understand if they are good people to own a dog!

Or take the sheep and put it elsewhere. immediate problem solved. Long term I would recommend a lot of training and a long line, maybe a muzzle if going for a long walk among many fields of sheep.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation, but please do not put your dogs to sleep! If you are losing sleep over the sheep then how are you going to cope with having your dogs pts?

In your every post you are convincing yourself that euthanasia is the only option and anything we suggest is met with defensive aggression. Why are you asking if you don’t want ‘listen’?

Maybe your emotional agony can only end with the death of the transgressors.

I aslo should say that my staffie has killed a fawn (well we presumed she killed it but fawn had no visible signs of injury on it) and I was devastated but at no point did I feel it warranted her being put to sleep or made me concerned about her behaviour around my children...they are just two separate things.

Dogs are predators and are programmed to kill.

Should we kill those who gave in to their instinct? Only those around him can decide.

I just hope that the OP's situation can be resolved quickly so the family can move on.

Your posts sound like you have made up your mind already.

Your belief in E collars & "domination" worries me as does trying to apportion blame withour actually witnessing what happened.

You will not like this, but the blame lies IMHO fairly & squarely on your shoulders, you decided to have the sheep & make them "pets"& not keep them in a predator proof enclosure. I have many sheep owning friends(not as pets-not really a role I consider they are suitable for)they do not have a couple but 100's & 1,000s & yes some die due to dogs(not as many as some would make out BTW).

Your dogs do not know that what they did was wrong, they are after all only dogs & doing what 1,000s of generations of dogs have done before. All dogs from the smallest to the larger breeds/sizes have an instinctive prey drive even if they appear to us not to have, it is a inbuilt survival instinct.

I feel sorry for your dogs & the sheep, but why do you now believe that your dogs will attack your child ??