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k9paw
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17-02-2011, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Indeed, but genetically they are the same.

Just as you and I and Neanderthals share the same genes, or you and I and a Maori, or an Aborigine, or an Amazon rain forest indian, or a Kalahari Bushman. We look very different, we act different, we do everything different in every way ... but we are EXACTLY the same from a genetic point of view.

This is what counts, NOT outward appearance, not behaviour, not lifestyle ... GENES.
Very well put. And there's a little bit of wolf in every dog somewhere.
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Gnasher
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17-02-2011, 06:19 PM
DNA evidence
Regarding the ancestry of dogs:

"[B]Prior to the use of DNA, researchers were divided into two schools of thought:
Most supposed that these early dogs were descendants of tamed wolves, which interbred and evolved into a domesticated species.
Other scientists, while believing wolves were the chief contributor, suspected that jackals or coyotes contributed to the dog's ancestry.
Carles Vila, who has conducted the most extensive study to date, has shown that DNA evidence has ruled out any ancestor canine species except the wolf. Vila's team analyzed 162 different examples of wolf DNA from 27 populations in Europe, Asia, and North America. These results were compared with DNA from 140 individual dogs from 67 breeds gathered from around the world. Using blood or hair samples, DNA was extracted and genetic distance for mitochondrial DNA was estimated between individuals.

Based on this DNA evidence, most of the domesticated dogs were found to be members of one of four groups. The largest and most diverse group contains sequences found in the most ancient dog breeds, including the dingo of Australia, the New Guinea Singing Dog, and many modern breeds, like the collie and retriever. Other groups such as the German shepherd showed a closer relation to wolf sequences than to those of the main dog group, suggesting that such breeds had been produced by crossing dogs with wild wolves. It is also possible that this is evidence that dogs may have been domesticated from wolves on different occasions and at different places. Vilà is still uncertain whether domestication happened once–after which domesticated dogs bred with wolves from time to time–or whether it happened more than once
"

I think this is the chap - Vila - but I may need to ask OH.
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Gnasher
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17-02-2011, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Do you have a reference for that research paper?
If you can I would be interested thanks
This is the name of the paper:

"Multiple and Ancient Origins of the Domestic Dog"

Caries Vila, Peter Savolainen, Jesus E. Maldonado,
Isabel R. Amorim, John E. Rice, Rodney L. Honeycutt,
Keith A. Crandall, Joakim Lundeberg, Robert K. Wayne*

I can't find the piece of research about the mitochondrial rna for the time being, but this paper by Caries Vila is very interesting.
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Tassle
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17-02-2011, 06:24 PM
Was trying to look him up- but google cannot seem to find a match...

And yes - I am mainly a nurture girl - although I believe genetics plays a small part.
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Gnasher
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17-02-2011, 06:28 PM
Professor Robert Wayne, OH thinks, is the guy I am thinking of. He is American.
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Gnasher
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17-02-2011, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
Was trying to look him up- but google cannot seem to find a match...

And yes - I am mainly a nurture girl - although I believe genetics plays a small part.
You amaze me!! Seriously? You're not just playing Devil's Advocate here?
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Tupacs2legs
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17-02-2011, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
You amaze me!! Seriously? You're not just playing Devil's Advocate here?
......shes not
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Gnasher
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17-02-2011, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by k9paw View Post
Very well put. And there's a little bit of wolf in every dog somewhere.
Of course - just like there is the Neanderthal buried deep in all of us. Some of us more than others,!!
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17-02-2011, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
......shes not
O Lord
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Tassle
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17-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Ok...so scanning some of that info..they reckon on dog separating from wolves 135,000 years ago... that's quiet a split by my estimation....

Does anyone know what the references are for the Copppingers work? Or why other people feel there was a common ancestor?
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