Oh I see. Thank you for clearing that up

Personally, I think for dogs still in training stages, then I agree. I certainly wouldn't put a dog in a position where it might fail, unless testing the success of a training process.

For trained dogs, (my definition of being trained as being, always responds to a given cue predictably), then the whistle could be used in any situation and get the same response. If it doesn't get the same response, then I would consider the dogs training to have failed and i would consider the dog "back in training".

Possibly - but some dogs will never be that reliable in certain circumstances. Like my ex-hunting Hound from Greece. I know he will ignore everything when on a scent so I don`t let him off round game. Because he has been bred and raised to be hunted on a harness and be totally single-minded for most of his life I think no training will ever overcome that instinct and conditioning.

EXACTLY that is precisely why I posted in another thread re letting dogs off the lead, that SOME dogs can NEVER be let off the lead or EVER have a reliable recall, whatever SOME people's experiences are.

The experiences of ONE are not the experiences of ALL and each dog is different.

To let some dogs off or to pretend that ALL dogs can be trained to an almost 100% recall is unrealistic at best and downright dangerous at worst.

Plus some owners will NOT train it in properly so they get what they train.............

IT is as ridiculous as the claim that foxhounds (raised in a hunt environment) will make good domestic pets!

Does this not worry you at all? It concerns me when I'm out alone with Rupert. What happens if I have a seizure? He's a big loveable goofball most of the time but given how reluctant he is to let even Calvin near me when I have a seizure I'm pretty sure he won't let a stranger near. While that's great as it means I'm not going to be robbed while unconscious (yes, there are people that will stoop that low) it's not so great if I need medical attention.

Well I am in the H & S business so whether or not anything concerns me depends on the risk assessment I have conducted.

So as this is based on likelihood x severity I can confidently say that the likelihood of me suddenly conking out etc comes under "unlikely" (based on my health, lifestyle and no previous incidences); but the severity of it being quite high is mitigated by the fact that anyone with half a brain would do their own "dynamic risk assessment" and call the police who could despatch a dog handler to handle the dog.

Nothing in life is risk free, 12 people die a year getting out of bed, does this stop me getting out of bed?

No.

So in answer to yoru question no it does not worry me in my particular circumstances as I am far more likely statistically to be killed in a car crash etc.

Smokeybear - sorry but you seem to be coming accross as contradicting yourself a bit.

No one will steal your dog because you will command them to bite.

Do you think dog theifs just walk up and say - 'I'll have that dog thanks' and walk off with them

What about when they steal your dog from a bench?
What about if they manage to steal your van with caged dogs in?
What about when you nip indoors to get a glass of water and then you dogs have been let out and one is gone - because it has recalled to someone after being let out....?

Dogs are animals, you can feel confident of things but in no way can you ever guarantee.....no matter how well you think youve proofed for anything life can throw up a million scenarios that you havent proofed for...

Of course I don't believe in Lassie but you seem to.

I understand that your dog will look to you for direction but you seem to think that your dogs will differentiate between an emergency or not. Something that you cannot really 'proof'


You cant have proofed for that as you wouldnt be able to do any proofing when your out cold, unless they, like 'lassie' just know that in a true emergency not to let anyone near you?
Otherwise in training they have been trained with certain people to not approach you whilst out cold. But since you no doubt have them socialised and must be able to let a judge near them etc - they do let people near you all the time....? So likley yes, certain, no. ?

Then he's just not fully trained!

Adam

Depends how you train them, if the methods are less than great so will the result!

Adam

Smokeybear - sorry but you seem to be coming accross as contradicting yourself a bit.
Do, I can see absolutely NO contradictions in my post at all, so there is no need to apologise!

No one will steal your dog because you will command them to bite.

If I felt it necessary yes.

Do you think dog theifs just walk up and say - 'I'll have that dog thanks' and walk off with them

From anecdotal evidence that is one way that people do it, but they would not be able to get very far if they did.

What about when they steal your dog from a bench?

My dog is never left unaccompanied on a bench (as per the KC rules and regulations at shows)


What about if they manage to steal your van with caged dogs in?

Yes I cannot prevent car theft although as my car is a new one and it you cannot actually start it unless you have the key, the likelihood is remote.

What about when you nip indoors to get a glass of water and then you dogs have been let out and one is gone - because it has recalled to someone after being let out....?

I am struggling a bit with this one, I have let my dogs out in the garden, then nipped indoors for a drink first of all the thieves would have to GET into the garden, could not happen.

Then they would recall the dog from the garden to where?

First of all I would hear the noise of a) the dogs going berserk and IF they still got in b) the noise of the thieves screaming as they got bitten................

What if aliens landed from Mars, what if what if what if..........

In the world of risk we work on PROBABILITY not POSSIBLITY.

It is possible to win the Lottery, but not probable........

as I have said several times before and I will repeat NOTHING IN LIFE IS RISK FREE..........


Dogs are animals, you can feel confident of things but in no way can you ever guarantee.....no matter how well you think youve proofed for anything life can throw up a million scenarios that you havent proofed for...

A million scenarios I have not proofed for. Really?

Ok give me 20 examples (only as seen from above you have not managed to come up with any realistic or convincing scenarios yourself to date).

Of course I don't believe in Lassie but you seem to.

I cannot help what you infer from my posts, that is something I CANNOT control!

I understand that your dog will look to you for direction but you seem to think that your dogs will differentiate between an emergency or not. Something that you cannot really 'proof'

Er no I do not appear to think that my dogs will differentiate between an emergency or not, quite the reverse, it was YOU that mentioned YOUR dog being a great judge of character etc etc not me.

I do not NEED a dog to decide what is an emergency or not, and in fact I KNOW that nobody would be able to a) recall my dog in my presence (that has been tried) b) take my dog anywhere without a great deal of trouble (that has been tried) c) they certainly would not be able to manage him for very long and d) he has proven in two separate occasions that trying any nefarious activity would result in serious harm to the perpetrator.

Really, there is little point in you continuing to try and convince yourself, me or others about what my dogs would or would not do as you have NO knowledge of my dogs or how they behave or the level of control I have over them.

But if it amuses you (it certainly amuses me) do continue in your pointless quest!



Quote:
And if by some chance I had fallen and was unable to command my dog, he would not allow anyone near me.

You cant have proofed for that as you wouldnt be able to do any proofing when your out cold, unless they, like 'lassie' just know that in a true emergency not to let anyone near you?

Oh dear you are revealing your lack of skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience by this statement! ROFLMAO

Do people have to REALLY be at deaths door for dogs to find them in rubble, under the snow etc etc.

Do people REALLY have to be criminals to train a dog to bite?

Do explosives HAVE to be armed for a dog to find them?

Otherwise in training they have been trained with certain people to not approach you whilst out cold. But since you no doubt have them socialised and must be able to let a judge near them etc - they do let people near you all the time....? So likley yes, certain, no. ?

My previous remarks apply.

Quick point, my clients dogs end up sensitive to their voice, so likely that the dog would not come to a stranger calling it. In fact that is often a good proofing exercise.

If the dog changes hands at any point it won't take much for the dog to realise that the new person is important and it should respond to their voice.

Obviously some dogs are more friendly than others and depending on personality and life experience some dogs will transfer from one handler to another easy but others won't.

With those that won't a quick reminder session with the collar generally makes things clear.

Adam