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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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18-11-2010, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs 
The Rott was lying on the floor in the large kitchen as where many other dogs, we where all drinking tea and chatting as is common after class.
The dog, a guarding breed is lying beside his owner in a fairly stressful situation - onlead therefore unable to keep his own distance. and surrounded by other dogs and people who he can`t get away from or control.
The premises owner came into the room, as he often does and walked through most of the dogs toward the fridge intent on putting milk in.
An intruder appeared
As he got level with the Rott, the Rott launched from his lying down position, mouth akready open and attempted to attach his teeth to the guys leg.
The intruder made straight for The Owner in spite of the dog staring and stiffening Luckily his owner was standing on his lead at the time and the dog only scraped the leg and tore the trousers.The dog told the Threat off
If there where signals, then they where missed by all of us and the senior ranking bitch, lose and present in the room, who would not have allowed the Rott to behave in this way had she seen warning signals.
The Rottie was even more tense because the controlling bitch he defers do did nothging to stop the attack on his beloved owner.
I don't think there was any warning whatsoever.
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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18-11-2010, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by rune
Nope---I would have stopped whatever the breed. I think if you are going to use dogs as stooges they deserve a bit of consideration and you don't put them in harms way.
rune
went straight for the throat, what a cliche any blood or cuts inflicted ? I hope the excersise has taught you a lesson and that you won't use your dog as a stooge again, you clearly didn't have control of either dogs...
I 'm glad the staffie cross has a new life with people who understand her, I wouldn't have liked to hear your assesment of her, poor girl may not have been here...
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
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18-11-2010, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs
With the Rott i was talking about, one of the attacks was extremely sudden, so sudden that none of the 8 instructors or 6 dogs present, read it.
The Rott was lying on the floor in the large kitchen as where many other dogs, we where all drinking tea and chatting as is common after class. The premises owner came into the room, as he often does and walked through most of the dogs toward the fridge intent on putting milk in. As he got level with the Rott, the Rott launched from his lying down position, mouth akready open and attempted to attach his teeth to the guys leg. Luckily his owner was standing on his lead at the time and the dog only scraped the leg and tore the trousers. If there where signals, then they where missed by all of us and the senior ranking bitch, lose and present in the room, who would not have allowed the Rott to behave in this way had she seen warning signals.
I don't think there was any warning whatsoever.
the rott launched from a lying down position, a relaxed position, he would have had to sit up , stand up and then launch...with any breed lying down is a relaxed position...
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Location: UK
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,096
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18-11-2010, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva
I can't believe the dogs are getting the blame in this situation, you were all chatting and having tea, no one was dog watching... where as rotties are very clever always observing their surroundings, you the human didn't have a clue, the ranking bitch was off and didn't even pick up on signals, what was she wearing a guards uniform and walking about on back legs patrolling the room, no she was doing what dogs do in a off lead situation like that, her own thing...
the rott launched from a lying down position, a relaxed position, he would have had to sit up , stand up and then launch...with any breed lying down is a relaxed position...
How relaxed is a "downed" working border collie, eyeing sheep like a coiled spring, waiting for permission to rise and move them?
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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18-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Tass
I have known dogs (and one wolf) use it as an effective "ambush" position, getting good grip and launch from the ground and I have also come across other dogs who are perfectly capable of springing straight up, and forward if required, without going though sit at any point, in the same way as some dogs will very neatly "fold back" at the hinges in their elbows, hocks and hips, to go straight "down" from a stand, bypassing sit.
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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18-11-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Tass
I have known dogs (and one wolf) use it as an effective "ambush" position, getting good grip and launch from the ground and I have also come across other dogs who are perfectly capable of springing straight up, and forward if required, without going though sit at any point, in the same way as some dogs will very neatly "fold back" at the hinges in their elbows, hocks and hips, to go straight "down" from a stand, bypassing sit.
How relaxed is a "downed" working border collie, eyeing sheep like a coiled spring, waiting for permission to rise and move them?
.... that said csv's do what i have highlighted...but signs are there 'if you are watching'.... tenses in forehead,eyes,stiffening etc.
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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18-11-2010, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Tass
I have known dogs (and one wolf) use it as an effective "ambush" position, getting good grip and launch from the ground and I have also come across other dogs who are perfectly capable of springing straight up, and forward if required, without going though sit at any point, in the same way as some dogs will very neatly "fold back" at the hinges in their elbows, hocks and hips, to go straight "down" from a stand, bypassing sit.
How relaxed is a "downed" working border collie, eyeing sheep like a coiled spring, waiting for permission to rise and move them?
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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18-11-2010, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva
why do the excersise in the first place, presumably you knew the wee one was supposed anti social...
went straight for the throat, what a cliche any blood or cuts inflicted ? I hope the excersise has taught you a lesson and that you won't use your dog as a stooge again, you clearly didn't have control of either dogs...
I 'm glad the staffie cross has a new life with people who understand her, I wouldn't have liked to hear your assesment of her, poor girl may not have been here...
DUH!
The dog was in rescue and I worked with her to help sort the problem out but didn't use my dog again in that situation. It is often useful to use a non proactive or reactive dog to see if a dog is really aggressive to other dogs or is frustrated by the lead and maybe the people on the end of the lead.
Of course I had control of my dog ---you can't do it unless you have control!
She was a very small staffie cross and came up under his throat. Not a cliche, not a stigma on the breed---just what happened---without any obvious warning.
BTW---If my assessment had been negative it may well not have been here----it wasn't negative so please don't make assumptions.
rune
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
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18-11-2010, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by rune
DUH!
The dog was in rescue and I worked with her to help sort the problem out but didn't use my dog again in that situation. It is often useful to use a non proactive or reactive dog to see if a dog is really aggressive to other dogs or is frustrated by the lead and maybe the people on the end of the lead.
Of course I had control of my dog ---you can't do it unless you have control!
She was a very small staffie cross and came up under his throat. Not a cliche, not a stigma on the breed---just what happened---without any obvious warning.
rune
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
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18-11-2010, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva
a working collie will be on a down position legs under if you like ready to go, I doubt the rottie was... a relaxed position in a down is when they are lying relaxed over on a hip as I 'm sure the rottie would have been, grip...from a laminated floor I think not...
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