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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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19-01-2010, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 
don't beat yourself up, Meg is a farm bred working springer no papers nada, cracking working dog though, and no she won't be going anywhere when she's retired, we'll just get a pup from one of the working kennels that does health check and i know a few
You are my first port of call when we get our next Springer, that's for sure!
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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19-01-2010, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by rune
I don't think many people who seriously work sheep are going to worry one iota if the dog is KC standard or not---why should they?
and what of us that show and do some form of work with our dogs? all be it sporting forms of work these days? If working dog owners feel better about there dogs by slagging off show dogs, so be it,
I often find in life, when people say negative things about one group of dog owners in an effort to make themselfs feel/look better, then its because they cant bring anything else to the table.
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Location: Wakefield England
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,697
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19-01-2010, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
Thanks Lizzy. I'm afraid I will always blame myself but it's OK as I have learnt from my mistake and like to do my bit to help others learn from it too.
You are my first port of call when we get our next Springer, that's for sure!
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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19-01-2010, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23
does that mean you're going to rescue one
My husband has bumped into one of your volunteers a few times recently on walks BTW. Sorry for the TJ.
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Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
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19-01-2010, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by aerolor
Totally agree Moobli - there is no easy solution and people will always be attracted by a fluffy pup and collie pups are very cute. My thought regarding cost was perhaps people would think more if they had to dig deeper into their pockets. I don't think any dog whatever the breed, pedigree or not, should be bought cheaply - the price is actually a very small part of the real cost, including responsibility, of owing a dog.
Collies pups are ten to the dozen if you know where to look, they come at a quarter of the price of many other breeds, and often they are sold no questions asked Not great, is it?
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Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
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19-01-2010, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Shona
can anyone tell me, what does a pet collie cost?
a show collie? and a working collie?
would be intresting to see if the price is very diff from one to the other,
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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19-01-2010, 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli
I can only tell you that working collie pups go from around £60 up to around £150. There are occasional ones for £200 or more, but they aren't the norm.
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Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
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19-01-2010, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Shona
thanks for that, I don think the price of the farm collies has went up much over the years then,
was the £400 year old collie a farm collie?
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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19-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by rune
Bernese have been bred far too big and suffer with bad joint problems in back and front legs----so it is no surprise that they have that age. Great Danes 'look ' ok and also have a low age expectancy.
It isn't just how a dog looks---that is a mistake many show people make, it is the 'hidden' problems which are bred in in the quest for a specific look as well.
rune
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Because most breeders of working gundogs dont bother with any health tests, along with a very small breeding programme.
Yet the show breeder is the one who gets all the criticism..
You only have to look at the diversity of the "springer" small, large, queen Anne legs to point out a few.
Yet it is argued they are a better example of the breed. did you not say, that a show springer could not do a days work, well sorry Pidge, the Springer with the bowed legs and no health tests, is more likey to be the one who suffers with joint problems.
But then the owner who works the dog may not expect a long life out of his dog , and just move onto the next one...
That's precisely it, the working folk (I'm talking Springers here, not Collies etc) are just as much to blame for the poor health of the Springer as the show types are. In fact I'd go as far as to say the show types are a damn sight healthier!
Originally Posted by aerolor
Not sure if I would believe that working gundog breeders do not do any health tests. They certainly should and I am sure a lot of them do have health tests done before they breed. The gundogs bred for the Sandringham Estate for example
Fuco Clears
[Fuco Carriers is not working for me so can't post the link!]
Should I tell you? Approximately 10% of the dogs tested on that link are working type Springers! 10%!!!!! And Fuco DNA testing has been around for a long time!
Just think how many more ESS that are bred are workers rather than show type and it kind of puts it into perspective for me!
So no, I don't think Show people are entirely to blame for a breeds ill health, in the Springer the working type breeders seem to be equally, if not more to blame judging by the amount of testng they're doing.
Oh and if you look at my website (go to Our Dogs-----Isla-----Isla's pedigree) you'll see what tests should be done on Springers. I looked for a working type breeder for a Sire for Isla's Daughter and I can tell you I found 2 kennels that tested correctly! 2!!!!!!
I blame both sides equally for the faults in the ESS breed, but when I hear people trying to blame the show people it really gets my back up, when given the evidence it clearly isn't the case!
This isn't aimed at you aerolor btw.
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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19-01-2010, 10:40 PM
We are all generalising.
What do you think I need to learn?
rune
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