Schutzhund, that is what I mean by Working Lines. Dogs which come from a long line of dogs engineered to compete in this sport.

Prior to the pet passport scheme such dogs were not easily available in the UK, now they are and bear no relation to those GSD from English Lines in Working Trials or Obedience; although of course there are now many continental bred GSDs (such as mine) which are.

Sorry Talassie - not trying to be pedantic honestly Working line shepherds in the UK are not "working" in the sense of bred to work sheep ... all rather confusing I know. They tend to be classed as working line when they have been bred on the continent for Schutzhund, although there are breeders in the UK with these lines now too, but they tend to go back to German and Czech bred dogs.

I remember taking my lovely, fluffy Flame puppy to pick up some equipment for Lancashire Police from working line breeder Stuart Nye and he laughed at me when I said she was a working line pup ... as, at the time, I also considered working trials line dogs to be "working line". However, he pointed the differences out to me and I was also treated to a display of some of their working dogs by his wife ... I was pretty impressed I have to say.

Was Major Force your bitch's sire then? He is Flame's grandfather

Just joking Kirsty Yes he was. Her mother was Foxfold Dark Blue Delinquent which I think was a great name. Tony had a way with names.

I am now more confused than before because if I look at Tala's pedigree there are many schutzhund dogs in her line. So I have to say now that I would always like a dog from obedience lines

I think I may have come across as being overly negative about Tala. I have to say she is a very easy dog to live with and her temperament is fantastic - couldn't wish for better. And she is stunning to look at ... she brings beauty into my life every day.

I think you may be right and it is too early to worry about bonding but the post did remind me so much of Tala as a puppy. I would have been so pleased if someone had said to me that she did not fit the expected gsd mould too well. It would have saved me a lot of heartache and as you know I got to the point where I was considering rehoming her.

It seems we have had opposite experiences with our dogs as Tess was the one with the motivation.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, just because a dog has a SchH 1/2/3 qualification does not necessarily mean it is from working lines.

There is a difference from "participating" in sports and "competing" in them.

Schutzhund is not a competitive event except at national and international level.

In addition I am afraid I have to tell you that not all titles are worth the paper they are written on.

At various clubs around the UK we have observed show dogs coming for training that have gained their titles in Germany.

(In Germany no breeding is allowed apart from with dogs which have at least one working qualifications).

Suffice it to say they are not of the calibre we would expect.

So seeing the qualifications alone is not enough, knowing the DOGS and the lines will tell you more than those titles.................

Are you saying that when these dogs gain their SchH 1/2/3 titles it is a bit like the KC tests where they just have to manage the various exercises?

At best yes, and worst not even that..............

So are you saying these qualifications do not exist ... ??? It's a bit misleading if so.

Well I have it on very good authority (that always makes my eyebrows go up) that "show" titles can be paid for .................

Of course that does not mean this applies to dogs in your dog's pedigree as I have no way of knowing, but it does happen.

Yours may be totally kosher.

When Zane was a young pup he was ball mad. Then as he got to about 8 months and tried unsuccessfully to be a little independent, he went off the play time and games. About 12 months later, he was back to being ball mad but he didn't know what to do with it so I had to re-teach him how to play. Now he's great at anything I ask him to do as he knows he'll have fun doing it and he'll get rewarded for it - not just by the activity he's involved in but high value treats when he does really well.

Yiannis was very independent, almost a loner when I had him at 3 months from the Dogs' Home. having said that, he's the only one of my dogs who has and has always had perfect recall. From 4 months old he's been off lead where ever possible but this is the exception. He didn't know how to play but I put that down to not knowing his history and assuming he'd never had the chance to be a typical GSD. So I had to teach him too.

Jenzi is ball crazy, always has been and I'm hoping always will be. She's incredibly easy to train - both party tricks and obedience and if it wasn't for the poor state of her hips, she'd be involved in all sorts of activities and sports if she enjoyed them.

I'd recommend what you've already been told. I think has a lot to do with the individual dog too but you need to spend more time with your pup on her own. Please don't worry - the bond will come in time. I know it's frustrating when you work so hard with them and feel you haven't reaped the benefits of your hard work but keep on trying with her - just don't try TOO hard. As she gets a littel bigger, it will come. Then you'll have the independent stage at about 7-10 months mixed in with kevin stages along the way.

Good luck too. If you haven't owned a GSD before, it will be the experience of your life!

Thanks so much everyone for your advice, very much appreciated, I have gone back to walking them separately again and will spend some more time with her in the house with the ball, thats great advice about the 2 balls left and right so I've been doing that with her today, working really well up to now

I am 'swotting up' on the recall article thanks again SB

xxx