the name caught on with time once they were being registered with the SIBTC of the early 90's. O'flynn,Psycho and the Dublin reds ( that in themselves are party to tales of fancy, most being peddled from street staff matings to the gullible public wanting to beleive they had something rare and special) were soon added to the list of the IRISH staff "breed" by those who wanted to make a few quid from selling something "special"
I do not beleive in the "Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier" But I DO beleive in Irish strains, such as those down from dogs like Battling Dutchess, and her like. All from...yep..you guessed it English KC lines.

i'd be very interested to hear these tales of fancy u are talking about, ur angle on these dogs is one of many....u would have to ask the guys that brought the original dogs in from ireland why they called them Irish staffs...but i think u would find the real reason less exotic than some of the reasons bandied around.When u have people who breed for the show ring and people who breed for sporting/working purposes.... u will eventually end up with what uv got just now....show dogs that to a large degree suffer from cleft palats, slipping patela's...and cannot give birth naturally, because they are bred for a specific look.....they are not asked to perform any physical tasks so over a certain period of time they lose a very large part of their physical abilities....and then u have the other end of the scale....call them what u will irish /old tyme or what ever these dogs still keep the length of leg ...they are longer in the back...breath more freely ...they are still capable of carrying out a lot of the tasks that the dogs of old were asked to perform ( if this is what ur after)...although these dogs might all be called staffs...they are not the same type of dog.....and to say that these "irish lines " go back to uk kc dogs, well most of the kc dogs in ireland can be traced back to nel of york...but a few of the red bitches can be traced back to irish working dogs in the 30's...but even if they were all down from kc stock initially so what......the difference between kc stock of 15yrs ago and now is the difference between day and night so that dont add up....sadly the kc dogs that are being shown and winning in the ring are sadly on the same slippery slope that the kc bulldog is now at the bottom of...and i for one cannot understand why this is being allowed to happen...surely the most important thing is to breed healthy dogs regardless of ur personal idea's on the dogs this one thing should come before all other's !!

I think there will always be debate over this because the two types are so different and the fans of each type will defend them fiercely.
I like bigger, leaner dogs, give me a big staff any day, I just like them better and as for breathing and whelping better I have to agree with you tusker, having bred small type staffs and larger "irish old tyme, whatever you want to call them " I find the irish type dogs produce their pups much easier and faster and they dont snuffle and grunt and wheeze and shuffle the way some of the smaller staffs do. The shorter the nose and the stuffier the neck the less space there is in there for the air to circulate and the stronger and longer the legs, the better the weight of the dogs body will be carried thats the way i see it, but i have a very black and white way of looking at things sometimes :smt003

Well speaking for myself Pete, I talk about the dogs from shows I have been to - and no not the odd one 5 years ago like you say but I do go regularly to see what is on offer - usually there are a few decent dogs but on the whole I am never impressed by what catches the judges eye. Usually I find the more impressive dogs tend to be left behind against the more extreme looking dogs i.e. those with shorter thicker legs, barrel chests, wide heads but short noses. I think its great for those people who do go to these shows and campaign a healthier alternative but usually their efforts go unnoticed. Even worse than this is the dogs who have breathing problems, I think its sad that some of the well known champions suffer from breathing problems too as at the end of the day this is suppose to be a canine athlete first and foremost whether they are bred for work or show health not rosettes should be the primary concern. Like it said on another site form should always follow function I think that is a fair assumption.

Some dogs I go by what I see in pictures, while you say some look very different in real life I am always of the thought that a picture tells a thousand words and quite often they do. I go by what my friends have told me from dogs they have seen in the flesh too. I have seen some cracknig KC dogs but overall I think what is winning at shows is really going downhill. They should be imo canine athletes regardless of what they are bred for I think its a shame that so many of the winning show dogs are such extreme examples of the breed. Is it just me or is this going off topic? I mean I thouht it was for discussing the Irish dogs not the goods and bads of the KC dogs.

sorry i may of bin off topic but i just wondered what "irish stafford" owners based there assumption kc show winners were exagerated and had health problems

off topic, I dont think so, the aim of the conversation at present is to query the sensibility and reality of describing a strain of dogs as a seperate breed, IE the Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I feel that disregarding the Stormer lines all these dogs are Staffords, no more no less. and the idea of giving certain lines a special name to suggest they are maybe better than another is a dangerous game in today BSL climate. Breeding over tall dogs is an equally dangerous game, a dog doesnt need to be the size of new south wales to be athletic and healthy. The so called Irish Staff is is no better or no worse than a well bred KC registered dog. KC dogs are also being bred to ridiculous sizes outside the show ring by novices that think bigger = old tyme.
As I said in my 1st post, if we take a look at the clandestine working dogs still going in the breed, theres is little to choose from, the irish bred lines( if we MUST distinguish between) are just as challenged in that feild as the working bred KC registered stock. there is very little left. All we have now is the chance to keep the dogs temperment and looks to the standards of the OLD dogs, not what we imagine a fighting dog should look like, and it seems to me that there is an equal amount of fancy in the old time lines as in the show lines, albeit that the exaggerated old time dogs are healthier. But what use is health if oversized dogs are being bred from, give what to the authorities see as a fake name for a pit, and they get further BSL pushed through.