Theories?:smt102 I am talking about dogs attacking people in the area I grew up, dogs chasing people down the street and biting children in the playground. You said that attacks were massively more common now yet I cannot find any evidence to suggest this? I do have a couple of links for you though;

two versions of the same story written by the BBC. I have spoken to so many people today while at work and nobody was aware of the second one, they all thought the first one was true.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7212727.stm

this is the story of what actually happened.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7247816.stm

Unfortunately the general public don't want to see headlines like "faithful rotties tries to revive collapsed owner" They want to hear about people being killed and maimed and that is what the media gives them. Had this been a fluffy cutsey type of dog then the reported story would have been completely different. If you actually look at the site I posted a link to in a previous post it states that you are more likely to be bitten by another person in this country than a dog and apparently more likely to be killed by lightning strike than dog attack It does conjure up some strange images reading that



And I know for sure plenty of dogs that would be allowed on the furniture or the beds although none of ours were allowed food of our plates or to lick the plates either which I think is disgusting:smt078 I thought you let your dogs on your bed dawn?:smt002 Treating a dog like something to baby and nurture is not a new thing at all, it may be more common now but it's definitely not new, it didn't happen in our house or the houses of friends that I knew but we did know of a few people that did it and we thought they were completely mad, even as a child I couldn't see why they thought their dogs could understand what they were saying



I am not talking about the attacks in other countries which we only really started to hear about in recent years. Something harsh was done, the DDA was passed in an attempt to gain public support. Oddly enough the dogs that are claimed to have caused this piece of legislation never killed anyone until the little girl on new years day, years after the DDA came into force. Rottweilers however did kill a girl in the late eighties, I think there were three of them but I am struggling to find any info online about it. In the eighties we had the omen films and suddenly rottweilers were everywhere and there were problems as a result of that.

There has not yet been any mention on his site or any of the programmes that I have watched that any of these dogs are seen by a vet to ensure that there is no undiagnosed medical reason that could be causing their behaviour, if it happens it should be mentioned but I don't believe that it does. I watched an episode a couple of nights ago with a very small dogs that didn't want to walk. He put it in with his pack and it stood there and shook air snapping occasionally at dogs that got close and pushed her. He then put her in water to get her using her legs and put her down on the ground and was suitably smug when the dog took a few steps but she was still clearly very stressed and scared. The voiceover then said that he took her to a vet and she had neurological problems and was partially blind but the vets trip was done AFTER not before he took her on Health problems are not the cause of all bad tempered dogs I totally agree with you on that but they should be ruled out as a possible cause first. I know horses are different but I know of more than one that was deemed dangerous and un-rideable only to later find that they had untreated back problems which were the cause of their behaviour.


Last night I watched while he strung a dog up on a pinch collar while it choked and then threw itself about, screeched and coughed but apparently it was having a tantrum He may not advocate such collars on dogs but he is clearly happy to abuse their use and if that is treating a dog like a dog then I never have and never will and will never understand why people think this sort of thing is ok:smt102

I really wanted to watch the DW last night, but our telly was playing up because of the very cold weather ... summat to do w'i atmospherics OH said ! Grrrrr ... I missed my fave programme. Sounds like CM was being his usual crool self then, abusing dogs ??

I rest my case

I have just been reading through the posts between Colliemad and Borderdawn with great interest. For once, I can't make my mind up on a subject ... you both present sound logical arguments on a fascinating topic. Please don't stop, you're great !!

Patch: one thing I did pick up on was a remark made by Colliemad during my readings. A very sensible remark, but I am most surprised you didn't pounce on her and tell her off for not taking notice of the breeder from whom she got her pup (or rescue centre, or whatever it was). Colliemad said:

I was told when I got deef as a pup that there was no point training him until he was 6 months old! I started training him at 6 weeks!

And quite right too ! Colliemad very sensibly ignored this ridiculous piece of advice because she didn't agree with it.

Well, I don't agree ... per se ... with advice that a rescue centre might give me regarding the castration or training method of a particular dog I may rescue from them.

Fair's fair, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander! Why sound off at me and not Colliemad? You can understand why I am beginning to feel picked upon !!

I have PM'd you by the way.

Patch: I haven't PM'd you, I am going bonkers !! Was thinking of someone else ... just ignore me, a senior moment !!

the conversation between dawn and I has pretty much run it's course, sorry!

However, I ignored the advice I was given about training because I knew it was ridiculous, the fact that I didn't agree with it didn't even come into it:smt102

As for rescue centres it is not advice that they give you about neutering, it is one of conditions that you adopt a dog under and is included in their contract, if you do not agree to it you don't get a dog, it's that simple:smt102

The same applies to those that have rules about training methods so you cannot compare my experience with your discussion with patch

To be honest I am totally with patch on this one and I am not going to start a conversation with you about it. I am not pro neuter in the way that patch is but I do believe that breeding from a rescue dog is just not acceptable

Thank you colliemad for putting your opinion across is a reasonable way. You are quite entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine, but it would seem that some people on this site think otherwise.

I know castration is the subject of a contract with rescue centres - some have already done it themselves of course, so then I would have no choice in the matter. But if we rescue the dog we have in mind, I will be requesting them, with certain provisos, to at least discuss the matter with me. I will keep you posted on this one.

It is a shame you and Borderdawn are about done because a good discussion is always very entertaining and interesting ... do you want me to try and come down on one side of the fence or the other on your discussion to get it going again? :smt002 I'm not sure I can, but I'll try if you would like me to.

My last post on this. Dog do have tantrums, they do throw hissy fits and they do pack it in when they realise it gets them nowhere. scared, perhaps, but unlikely in most cases. I am not asking you to think its ok, as I said, different people have different views, dancing with dogs is cruel to me, CM is cruel to you. lets leave it at that.

I hope a representative of the organisation looking after the dog you have in mind is reading and willing to put forward their views as to why they would let anyone breed from a rescue dog if they do let you have your `proviso`, [ in the rescue forum though rather than this thread ].
I find it incredulous that you have such an attitude about it, and frankly I sincerely hope you don`t get to adopt a rescue dog with your way of thinking, certainly no reputable rescue would allow you to adopt from them both on the neuter stance and on the total disregard of their knowledge of the dogs in their care as you have stated your next dog will be CM`d no matter what

Borderdawn: I could not agree with you more. I personally think dancing with dogs is cruel, and have said so on other threads before (as a consequence WW3 descended on my head, but I soldiered on !!).

Dogs do indeed throw tantrums! I've read the book, bought the t shirt AND seen the film ... and eaten the stew too !! Hal ... and even more so his son Woody ... could shriek the place down fit to burst if you tried to do something to them they didn't like. Hal was nicknamed Houdini ... that dog could extract himself as quick as a flash from any collar, however correctly fitted. He would do everything but stamp his paw when he was having a paddy !