Not sure how good your trainers are, it may be that your dog was reacting to collie eye in the class situation, anyway you are where you are, have considered 1:1 training with your dog?

Maybe we could recommend someone?

What we could almost do with is an assessment somehow/somewhere by someone who has the knowledge, to see whether he is actually being genuinely bad or whether we are misinterpreting it.

Yes, we had read about that and considered it for some time before deciding to go ahead.

We have certainly had some of that stage, he was acting like a puppy last week! Bonkers!

Yes, as I said, we went for a walk with a friend's male lab on Thursday evening, he was fine with him for 2 hours.

What is collie eye?

We are in North Nottingham, Hucknall to be precise.

I have been thinking about 1:1 yes. However I'm thinking hard about it, as obviously 1:1 training costs a fair bit.

Is this the kind of ting that needs 1:1 training? Is that the same as a behaviourist?

Thanks for the replies.

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions/area/notts

Adam Beral, speak to him,

I don't know that area but you could also consider Marie Miler if she's not too far away

I think you definitely need to see someone who can do a proper assessment and help you with the practical stuff too.

http://www.pawsnlearn.com/

Wys
x

It sounds to me that your dog maybe feeling vulnerable/insecure because he is on a lead when other off lead dogs come over to him.

I do sympathise as it'll make you and your partner feel slightly anxious when other dogs approach, which you dog may well pick up on.

One of mine went through a phase of greeting other dogs and sniffing them, but as soon as they wanted to sniff him he would back off or growl. One of mine is definitely more wary about meeting new dogs than the other, so I just monitor the situation, but having said that he hasn't been 'odd' for quite a few months now.

I believe that is take months for the hormone levels to calm down once they have been castrated. Mine were both been chemically castrated a few months ago and it is really only now that they have stopped humping each other etc etc.

Good luck and I am sure all of the advice you have been given so far is spot on.

Our dog Marco used to be the calmest dog on the block, very laid back and great with other dogs, never batting an eyelid.

All that started to change about a year and a half ago, when he was attacked by a black labrador.

We tried what we could to resolve the problem, many training classes to improve his behaviour. Then we had him castrated about 1 year ago, primarily to try to help deal with aggression towards other dogs.

Wee actively take his food with us on walks to try to keep him distracted when other dogs pass by and we cannot avoid them by crossing the road or similar to avoid confrontation. But since then he got progressively worse. Obviously it's nigh on impossible for us to let him off lead as can not reliably enough have recall if another dog appears. We know there was a chance that having him castrated could make him worse, due to him having less coping mechanism. From our novice psychology guesswork we think it's a fear based aggression, like trying to get in first.

The aggression has continued and if anything progressively got far worse. He is worse went the other dog barks/yaps/growls etc. Then he starts thrashing around at the end of his lead, growling, with his front legs off the ground trying to get to the other dog. Most of the time there is no provocation that we notice, but presumably he might be sending out bad dog messages. There is seemingly no pattern to the type or sex of dog. Some he gets along with fine, generally the ones he'd met before the issues. And some we've never come across he can walk past without batting an eyelid. But most.....


Saturday morning: As usual on his walks, he came across a few dogs, and he reacted very aggressively towards a black labrador. But 5 minutes after that with that dog gone and some distance from the incident, my wife was chatting to another dog owner, with whom's dog Marco gets on with.

After a short while he pulled the lead clean from her hands and ran around a fenced off playing field, over 500 ft + away, just to attack the black Labrador. He went for it teeth showing growling and no chance of him returning.

My wife came back in tears saying it's the last straw and he had to go if she could no longer control him.

We are at the of our tether and out of hope and ideas. Walking him is now far from a pleasure as it feels like walking a timebomb, which even I can only just control him when walking.

We just don't know what turn to take anymore.

Yours hopefully

edit: I've just realised we had a thread from a long time back about the beginnings the problem. I probably should have resurrected that thread, sorry.
Has started to become aggressive to other dogs

Hi David

I'm really interested in the responses you get as my dog suffers with a similar problem (maybe not quite so bad). Mine has a real problem with brown labradors - there was one in the area that played much too rough and tries to mount my dog and now he cannot go anywhere near brown labradors - even, sad to say, old arthritic ones. Like your dog my dog's aggression can emerge randomly, sometimes he will completely ignore some dogs and others he will really go for.

Anyway I don't want to hijack your posting so just to say I did consult an excellent behaviourist (an ADPT registered) and she has helped by teaching me how to use BAT, I just bought Behaviour Adjustment Training by Grisha Stewart, very good for anxiety based aggression (I don't think there is any other kind). The book explains it in detail.

I understand your wife's fear of walking him - but it is curable. Don't give up on him.

Sandy

Sorry it's me again! I notice in an earlier posting ClaireandDaisy gave you some pointers on BAT.

I just wanted to add that when I was first introduced to it I wondered how I would known when to turn him away upon encountering another dog, because to me he didn't give me any pointers that he was about to "go", now I see it very quickly just by looking at his ears, or noting his body has stiffened, sometimes he sniffs the ground .... I click the moment I notice this and walk away VERY CHEERFULLY and I'm always astounded at the immediate change in his body language, ears go down, body relaxes and he has a little shake. It's all about watching him and being tuned into what he's thinking. Remember your dog is extremely anxious and going from 0 - 60 in adrenalin rush, he's not being horrible but he's really scared.

Sorry to rattle on.

Sandy

DavidC, I am so sorry that you are having trouble with Marco. I cannot really offer any help other than to say that I too have a dog who is fear aggressive. He is in no way as reactive at Marco but I have to be vigilant when he meets other dogs. He was attacked by an off lead Jack Russell who went for my boy when he was walking on a lead with me and his brother littermate when he was 10months old (they have just turned 2). He too was a very well socialised confident dog and was always best friends will all dogs he met.

The sad thing is he desperately wants to be friends with other dogs he hasn't met and will wag his tale, in fact his whole back end and will say hello nicely. My problem is as I go to walk on (I think its as he feels the pressure on his lead) he almost panics and his whole demeanour will sometimes change and he can then snap. I do lots of walking with dogs he knows (who he is fine with) and of course he has his brother for confidence. He also seems fine with larger dogs, its the little dogs he is frightened of.

If he meets an unknown dog when off a lead he is nervous but as soon as he realises they aren't going to attack him he is fine. I just dread another dog going for him again. as he has improved.

Regarding Marco, can you get a behaviourist involved who could actually go out for a walk with you or your wife and actually see how Marco reacts to other dogs. Initially I used the BAT method and it really helped (do research BAT online it'll really help) but that was pretty confusing for his brother having to walk in the opposite direction. I certainly don't think Marco should be off-lead at all until you have managed to address this situation, for his sake and the safety of other dogs. For extra control have you tried walking him with a halti head-collar or a Canny Collar (which is advertised here on Dogsey on the left hand panel "Pulling Dog?" . It would at least mean you or your wife would have more control. A muzzle may be advantageous too but do introduce one slowly.

I wish you the best of luck and hopefully you can re-build Marco's confidence ..... and your wife's.

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I agree with those that have advised to get a good behaviourist to assess your dog's behaviour. The sooner you do this you can learn some techniques to help manage your dog and get things into perspective. It will be money well spent.

There is light at the end of the tunnel and you can begin to enjoy your dog again.