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Wysiwyg
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19-04-2012, 07:21 AM
Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
.....

Marco is nearly 3 years old and unneutered, he used to be cool as a cucumber when we got him, barely even looking at other dogs as we passed them.
I am wondering if he has not always been comfortable withg other dogs and chose to avoid looking at them on lead because of this? And now that he has matured perhaps he feels he is more confident and can show aggression to keep them away? Just a thought that crossed my mind when I read this

....

We have noticed a general unruliness to him recently, coupled with us not doing much training with him recently (we're moving house soon and so things have being a bit hectic recently. We are rectifying the training by starting to do some again and we have signed up to a class starting at the end of this month.
House moves can be incredibly stressful for owner and dog alike - whatver is wrong, this added stress might have made your dog more reactive.

When it initially started happening we just assumed it was the other dog and not Marco, but now it has started to happen more we think some of it is certainly Marco.
Sometimes a bad experience can set a dog off (to "get in first" if you like) and this is usually motivated by anxiety/fear.

I don't know if I just don't know what signs to look for or not, but I don't know how to tell which dog initiates something, what signs there are.
Staring/eueballing from one or both can be one of the signs. But often just the presence of another dog will set the problem off.If you check out some of the body language info on the net, you may be able to see other signs which are attempts at appeasement or warning.

There is some good specific info on lead aggression from Kim Moeller and she has done a booklet and dvd called Reactive Rover

There are explanations for the behaviour, info on how to train your dog certain exercises, etc.

Re the neutering, if there is a problem with adult entire male dogs then it might help. It would be worth a try as long as there is no real nervousness to the behaviour

Wys
x
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Jenny
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19-04-2012, 11:27 AM
Hi David,
I have just had my two entire male dogs implanted with a male contraceptive. One benefit is that once it fully takes affect, they will not be pumped full of testosterone which can make them give off an aggressive 'aura' to other dogs. The implant is called Superlorin and I haven't as yet heard anything negative about it, only positive feed back and means a surgical castration is not necessary.
I have today posted a thread on it in the Dog Chat section.
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3dognight
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19-04-2012, 09:58 PM
sounds like your dog is comming into his own,mature.iv experienced the same over the years,it like you just got through pup trainging,and there was a period where all is fine and you got the dog trained you feel you, made it...then an issue arises,im convinced it just faze 2.maturity issues..just thought and my experiences .hope all goes well
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Kuromi
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20-04-2012, 06:55 PM
Hopefully it's not medical, but PWD's can suffer from thyroid problems which can cause aggressive and abnormal behaviour. I would think you'd have noticed other symptoms, but if it continues and nothing else helps it might be worth investigating just to rule it out.
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3dognight
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20-04-2012, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Kuromi View Post
Hopefully it's not medical, but PWD's can suffer from thyroid problems which can cause aggressive and abnormal behaviour. I would think you'd have noticed other symptoms, but if it continues and nothing else helps it might be worth investigating just to rule it out.
iv been through this as well,turned out to be a quil from a porupine,just a small piece,in the back of the toung,could not see it and there was no resone to belive there was trouble,it was 6 monthes later we noticed,maenwhile the dog was progressivly getting worse,with behaviuor,once she healed ,she became herself agian,i felt terrible,im very causious of my dogs health,and see the vets often,i get discounts!im there so much.
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Baxter8
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23-04-2012, 08:21 AM
Hi Tabitha

Sorry to butt in on this thread but just wondered if you could explain the "watch me" command - i think it would be something very useful for my dog.

Bax

Originally Posted by TabithaJ View Post
Does it only happen when he's on lead?

If so, it may be sheer frustration at not being able to engage with the other dog he can see. My Lab does this - off leash he's amazing around dogs. But put a lead on him and ANY dog we pass sends him into a frenzy of barking and leaping...

Have you tried the 'watch me' command? I find this really helps. If you'd like more info on this, let me know.

Unfortunately it becomes a vicious circle: the more tense you become, the more tense Marco becomes, and this then exacerbates whatever started the problem behaviour... I really empathise - I've been working on my dog's reactivity when on lead for months!

But again: the 'watch me' really DOES help. Needs a lot of practice though.

Neutering may help but I'd be tempted to try a behavioural approach first. My Lab is neutered and it hasn't stopped the reactivity. (though in fairness as he's a rescue I don't know what he was like before they had him neutered).

Also: is there any chance that Marco is in pain and that this is making him react differently? Might be an idea to get him a check up, just to be on the safe side.
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DavidC
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23-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by TabithaJ View Post
Does it only happen when he's on lead?

If so, it may be sheer frustration at not being able to engage with the other dog he can see. My Lab does this - off leash he's amazing around dogs. But put a lead on him and ANY dog we pass sends him into a frenzy of barking and leaping...

Have you tried the 'watch me' command? I find this really helps. If you'd like more info on this, let me know.

Unfortunately it becomes a vicious circle: the more tense you become, the more tense Marco becomes, and this then exacerbates whatever started the problem behaviour... I really empathise - I've been working on my dog's reactivity when on lead for months!

But again: the 'watch me' really DOES help. Needs a lot of practice though.

Neutering may help but I'd be tempted to try a behavioural approach first. My Lab is neutered and it hasn't stopped the reactivity. (though in fairness as he's a rescue I don't know what he was like before they had him neutered).

Also: is there any chance that Marco is in pain and that this is making him react differently? Might be an idea to get him a check up, just to be on the safe side.
We don’t believe he is in any pain, we’ve checked him like usual and couldn’t see anything, nor got any strange reactions.
He is very rarely off lead at the moment due to this problem, so I’m not sure how he’d be off lead at the moment.
After reading a bit more it’s unlikely we’ll bother having his bits off, as it doesn’t seem very often that it sorts the problem. It seems to be something we need to tackle through more training.

Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
I know the temptation but dragging him past on a short lead with his front paws off the ground will cause some other dogs to react to him for sure
and is more likely to cause him to react because he cannot communicate with the other dog and he cant defend himself

Initially I would turn around and walk away before he gets the chance to react
We’ve taken to being a bit more cautious, getting him sat and calm with a bit of distance before the other dog passes which is helping for now.

Originally Posted by TabithaJ View Post
Sure

You start at home, when it's quiet. Hold up a treat, right in front of your nose - and tell your dog 'watch me'.

The second he looks at you - reward with treat and lots of praise!

Keep practising this at home, with no distractions. Gradually, start holding the treat up for a bit longer before rewarding.

Then start practising with a few distractions - e.g. in the garden. Practise a lot!

Practise as often as possible because you want it to become automatic that when your dog hears 'watch me' he looks at you!

Again, gradually hold the treat up for longer. Also, start commanding your dog to SIT as well. He sits and watches you = reward with treat and BIG fuss/praise.

Once your dog is doing this on command at home, start practising outside - e.g. during quiet walks. Build distractions gradually. Practise in the park, when there are no other dogs around and your dog is both on and off lead.

Once you are able to get a sit and 'watch me' OR just a 'watch me' in very busy situations, you are ready to start using it when other dogs are nearby. Do not be discouraged if it doesn't seem to work at first - it took me quite a while.

Also: give the 'watch me' order as soon as you see the other dog; DON'T wait until the other dog is walking right past!
Will certainly try this, although his tummy is off, so using treats to train him is out for a little while.
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
David, if you ever want to bring him out with Louie we can go for a walk.. I can give you some tips on how to do some of the things mentioned here because I've used them with Benjie
I’m sure once we have finished moving house we will do. Thanks for the offer SLB.
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Staring/eyeballing from one or both can be one of the signs. But often just the presence of another dog will set the problem off.If you check out some of the body language info on the net, you may be able to see other signs which are attempts at appeasement or warning.
There is some good specific info on lead aggression from Kim Moeller and she has done a booklet and dvd called Reactive Rover
There are explanations for the behaviour, info on how to train your dog certain exercises, etc.
Re the neutering, if there is a problem with adult entire male dogs then it might help. It would be worth a try as long as there is no real nervousness to the behaviour
Wys
x
I'll be sure to check this out, thank you very much Wys.
Originally Posted by jenny.g View Post
Hi David,
I have just had my two entire male dogs implanted with a male contraceptive. One benefit is that once it fully takes affect, they will not be pumped full of testosterone which can make them give off an aggressive 'aura' to other dogs. The implant is called Superlorin and I haven't as yet heard anything negative about it, only positive feed back and means a surgical castration is not necessary.
I have today posted a thread on it in the Dog Chat section.
I will bear this in mind, but I think I’ve decided I’d like to try to work on the behaviour first.
Originally Posted by 3dognight View Post
sounds like your dog is comming into his own,mature.iv experienced the same over the years,it like you just got through pup trainging,and there was a period where all is fine and you got the dog trained you feel you, made it...then an issue arises,im convinced it just faze 2.maturity issues..just thought and my experiences .hope all goes well
You just filled me with dread! Lol
I think a bit more training on our side of things would help him, time to get more consistent and regular.
Originally Posted by Kuromi View Post
Hopefully it's not medical, but PWD's can suffer from thyroid problems which can cause aggressive and abnormal behaviour. I would think you'd have noticed other symptoms, but if it continues and nothing else helps it might be worth investigating just to rule it out.
I had not heard that before, I will look into it and symtoms.
Originally Posted by 3dognight View Post
iv been through this as well,turned out to be a quil from a porupine,just a small piece,in the back of the toung,could not see it and there was no resone to belive there was trouble,it was 6 monthes later we noticed,maenwhile the dog was progressivly getting worse,with behaviuor,once she healed ,she became herself agian,i felt terrible,im very causious of my dogs health,and see the vets often,i get discounts!im there so much.
We have checked him over and can’t find anything. Will always keep our eyes peeled though, thanks for the tip.
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Jackie
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23-04-2012, 03:01 PM
Whats he actually doing David? (sorry if you have said, may have missed it) is he actually starting a fight, does he attack the other dog , or is it all posturing (handbags at dawn) don't get me wrong you don't want any of that behaviour, but it may help if you say what his aggression actually entails, will he run over to another dog to attack it, or does it only happen with dogs that come up to him and he meets face on??

The breed is not usually an aggressive breed, (always an exception though ) did he have a bad experience with another dog to set this of, it could be he has reached his "kevin stage" but what ever triggers this behaviour, you may be best getting one to one help from a reputable trainer....would be good though if you can take up SLB offer, and anyone else near you , to help evaluate the situation.

Hope you get this sorted soon, before it becomes a habit for him.
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Dobermann
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23-04-2012, 04:33 PM
couldnt agree more with this!
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
I am wondering if he has not always been comfortable withg other dogs and chose to avoid looking at them on lead because of this? And now that he has matured perhaps he feels he is more confident and can show aggression to keep them away? Just a thought that crossed my mind when I read this

....



House moves can be incredibly stressful for owner and dog alike - whatver is wrong, this added stress might have made your dog more reactive.



Sometimes a bad experience can set a dog off (to "get in first" if you like) and this is usually motivated by anxiety/fear.



Staring/eueballing from one or both can be one of the signs. But often just the presence of another dog will set the problem off.If you check out some of the body language info on the net, you may be able to see other signs which are attempts at appeasement or warning.

There is some good specific info on lead aggression from Kim Moeller and she has done a booklet and dvd called Reactive Rover

There are explanations for the behaviour, info on how to train your dog certain exercises, etc.

Re the neutering, if there is a problem with adult entire male dogs then it might help. It would be worth a try as long as there is no real nervousness to the behaviour

Wys
x
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Dobermann
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23-04-2012, 04:36 PM
id also say google turid rugass (sp?) Calming signals and watch her videos, might turn out your boy has been communicating all along
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