have you read the research they have done with as you say the ''years of research''....??? try to find it.... for your own peace of mind...
I have had the pleasure of visiting a pet food company that is now run by the great great great great grandson of the original starter. A pet food for 'working dogs'. I took my mum, her jaw was on the floor. The years of research, was based on 'here you eat this and see how your dog does' no data nothing. They have MADE UP a food and the dogs over 50 years have done ok. I am a scientist. I asked him what controls he had on the dogs he used to make sure nothing else was given. He shrugged his shoulders at me. But his customers, like yourself, think that he has done his research!... and by putting 'linseed oil' on the bag, he really cares about your dog....

Sorry Jess, I don't believe you, I need you to prove to me that Royal Canin is owned by Mars who make pedigree chum please!!!!!!!!

Shh Calm down Helen Don't get all shirty with me (we are mates!)

I am really glad you believe in Royal Canin and I haven't got anything to say about them ...

Other than...

For £57 for 15kg you wouldn't have to feed them on chicken wings from sainsbury's H you could feed em on flippin steak (if that's what they did ok on of course)

True Helen you have found a diet that works but although you say all 'people' food would be bad for her but perhaps there are many other natural diets that could possibly work? people adjust natural diets all sorts of ways for dogs with all kinds of conditions. Just as one kibble doesnt suit all there are many variations of a natural diet.

Maybe it's just that the big commercial food companies would have you believe it's the only way to go? Or else they wouldn't be able to sell it at 15kg for £57.

I don't know...It's all just thoughts...Like I said, I aint no expert so don't take what I am saying as criticism at all I'm only sharing a thought or two not saying what anyone does is right or wrong.

I've said before, elsewhere, that I have all the time in the world for people who go to the trouble fo raw-feeding. I don't think they have all the answers though, it's only a different way of feeding, and doesn't really merit the smugness that often comes across.

Certainly many pre-prepared dog foods are full of s***, but is anybody really that shocked? People feed mechanically recovered meat (ie: bowels, eyeballs, udders) to their children every time they serve up supermarket sausages or any shaped meat product. And that's before we even get on to the growth-hormones in non-organic meat and dairy, or the trans-fats in virtually all processed food. Now that's disturbing!

Some people feed raw because they like to do so, others feed kibble because that's what suits them. Does anybody have anything more than anecdotal evidence to say that one is better than the other. If not then I'll keep doing what suits me, and my remarkably happy, healthy puppy

As one who lives near Slough and knows a bit about the company, I can confirm that Mars Inc. bought Royal Canin in 2002.

Mars have 2 pet food divisions, Masterfoods for mass retail (eg. Pedigree Chum, Bounce, Cesar, Chappie, Pal) and Royal Canin which is distributed through vetinarians and specialised outlets. They keep the 2 divisions pretty seperate though.

A google on mars masterfoods royal canin will confirm it for you.

"Mars and Nestlé have both undertaken major takeovers in the face of stagnating pet food sales in recent years, triggered by a shift in consumer demand towards premium and dry varieties, while the companies’ offerings were skewed towards wet and mid-priced products. The purchase by Nestlé of US dry pet food specialist Ralston Purina in 2001 was followed one year later by Mars with the takeover of French dry and super-premium pet food firm Royal Canin.

The takeovers bring significant benefits to both companies, and the outlook for each has been considerably improved. But while both companies will remain very close in terms of pet food turnover for some time, it can be argued that Mars is set for stronger long-term growth."

http://www.euromonitor.com/Can_Nestl...et_food_market

Doesn't mean it's full of sugar & fat though . Just that they now own the product, premises, etc. They may not have even changed the ingredients. Just the packaging maybe?
One to ask them if concerned.

Sorry Mys, I must have got up off the sofa on the wrong side!!!

Now, I've just done some research, and yes, Mars did buy Royal Canin, but they don't actually own it, they are major shareholders coz they wanted Royal Canin as it held such a large share of the market in Europe. Originally, Royal Canin food was produced by Waltham, who were the largest pet food laboratory in Europe, and this is when I had to start my kibble diet, back when Waltham made it. I'm not concerned with who takes over the company for monetary reasons, so I stuck with it when it changed to royal Canin, and again in 2002 when Mars bought a major share. Thanks for that tillytails and I AM pleased that they keep the two units separate, it does make me feel that bit better about the whole thing.

I don't actually say this is my food of choice, of course not, if I had the time and the energy and sat on my a** all day, I would probably cook for my dogs, both of them, and on the odd occassion I do that, but only with things that I know won't upset this particular dog. I couldn't possibly feed her raw, it's far too late to even consider that option now with her condition, for one thing it would be too much of a shock to her system. Nothing we fed her made her any better 6 years ago, we tried everything over a period of 3 months, until the vet prescribed a special Waltham (Royal Canin now) kibble, and immediately things changed for the better, and that is the only reason my dog is on this kibble. I don't really have a choice. The other dog, same thing really, he has a skin condition which he has inherited through his poor breeding, vet says this is the only food for him, so he gets it!

Horses for courses I think, what suits one, and more importantly, suits the owner and their pocket, then stick with it. Luckily for me I can afford special kibble at £57 per bag, but I'd much rather not obviously! I think she'd much prefer rump steak too! I would love to give her a piece of raw steak to scoff, I really would, but like I said for me personally it would be too much of a risk.

Okay, so we are all aware that we can slate dog kibble manufacturers...that's old news and to be perfectly honest the ins and outs of it and criticisms of individual comapnies hack me off a tad...and are for discussion in a different thread. As soon as ANY kibble manufacturer is mentioned, the name will be jumped upon. They've done x,y,z. Until you can tell me exactly where the food yOU eat and the raw food you feed to your dog comes from...all meat/eggs/and veg...everything...then lets not go there, sorry. How about where everything in your shampoo,medication or make up...or the chemicals used in the manufacturing of your clothes. The emissions from your central heating system....
None of us are perfect...none of us can hand on heart say that NOTHING we consume has come from an unethical source or has been tested unethically...not one. Nor do I think that any raw feeders can say, hand on heart they know exactly where everything their dog eats has come from, how it was slaughtered, or how many chemicals were involved in it's upbringing or growth. raw feeding does not suddenly make you ethically correct...
Any large scale manufacturer has a history and has things it should be ashamed of, as long as they constantly try to improve things and listen to public opinion...
They are no better or worse than large supermarket chains IMO...

As for the mass conspiracy theories...vets and dog food manufacturers (and of course university vet depts...have heard that too) working together to push kibble diets for money...perhaps to an extent, but lets think about vets. They spend 5 HARD years studying to care for animals. They care. They continue to develop their expertise throughout their careers, just like Drs. They are incredibly intelligent people. Why would they recommend a food...for money...unless, that food was proven to benefit the dogs they recommended it for???? Why??? There is no logic in that at all. The vets stock dry food, but don't make that much form it...for what??? A few posters and some magnets??? Come on guys...

The thing is...kibble works for the vast majority of dogs but not all...a raw diet is the same...
It is up to us what we feed our dogs. If it works...don't knock it.

Jess youstill didn't tell me at what point my dogs may show that their feeding is incorrect for them...they are a good age now...as are Helena's dogs...


As for snobbery...sorry I still stand by it.
No I'm not proud of my kibble...its just my dog food. I feed it to them twice a day and the rest of the time it hangs out in a cupboard in the kitchen. Not at all proud of it...don't think about it most of the time.
As for my boys...yep I'm proud of them...because of their kibble??? nope? Because they are healthy and alert...nope. Because they are my boys and they have been there for me through the best of times and the worst of times...ohhhhh yesss.

That's ok

PMSL AT THIS BIT!!!
No I'm not proud of my kibble...its just my dog food. I feed it to them twice a day and the rest of the time it hangs out in a cupboard in the kitchen. Not at all proud of it...don't think about it most of the time.

:smt044 :smt044 :smt044 :smt044

I must say though, my kibble is definitely better than yours, coz it costs £57 a bag!!!!!! Luv. Hyacinth!