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Lionhound
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03-04-2009, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Sara'n'Scout View Post
I'm sorry I'm gonna jump in here. EVERY dog who is not going to be bred should be spayed or neutered! waiting 'till their a year old is a good idea, but sometimes, like in this case, neutering early is a good idea so the "male" behaviors dont become habit. accidental litters DO NOT NEED to happen and as overcrowded as shelters are, we dont need to bring more puppies in to this world. Dogs that are neutered have a ZERO risk of testicular cancer, spayed dogs have a MUCH reduced risk of Mammary Cancer, and a ZERO risk of uterine cancer. Neutering is not a cure all by any means, BUT an intact dog will travel MILES for a bitch in heat, if it gets out of the yard.... this will stop with a neuter. I do not believe in leaving ANY dog intact that is not a perfect specimen of the breed, and therefore used for breeding. besides, heats for an intact female can be hard on them, and you run a MAJOR risk of unwanted puppies.
Sorry but I am not being made feel like an irresponsible owner because I refuse to put my dog through a totally un-necessary anaesthetic (mortality risk) because I have made an informed choice not to neuter. I would never say it is right for everyone not to and believe in doing what is right for your own dog. I have always had intact males and never has one travelled miles to get his end away. They have never had any behavioural or health issues connected to being intact and have never been resposible for producing unwanted or infact any pups.
Beau will keep his ginger nuts unless losing them is of benefit to him.
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Pidge
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03-04-2009, 07:43 AM
Originally Posted by Sara'n'Scout View Post
I'm sorry I'm gonna jump in here. EVERY dog who is not going to be bred should be spayed or neutered! waiting 'till their a year old is a good idea, but sometimes, like in this case, neutering early is a good idea so the "male" behaviors dont become habit. accidental litters DO NOT NEED to happen and as overcrowded as shelters are, we dont need to bring more puppies in to this world. Dogs that are neutered have a ZERO risk of testicular cancer, spayed dogs have a MUCH reduced risk of Mammary Cancer, and a ZERO risk of uterine cancer. Neutering is not a cure all by any means, BUT an intact dog will travel MILES for a bitch in heat, if it gets out of the yard.... this will stop with a neuter. I do not believe in leaving ANY dog intact that is not a perfect specimen of the breed, and therefore used for breeding. besides, heats for an intact female can be hard on them, and you run a MAJOR risk of unwanted puppies.
From what I understand and believe, I agree, well put.
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Ramble
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03-04-2009, 07:59 AM
Originally Posted by Sara'n'Scout View Post
I'm sorry I'm gonna jump in here. EVERY dog who is not going to be bred should be spayed or neutered! waiting 'till their a year old is a good idea, but sometimes, like in this case, neutering early is a good idea so the "male" behaviors dont become habit. accidental litters DO NOT NEED to happen and as overcrowded as shelters are, we dont need to bring more puppies in to this world. Dogs that are neutered have a ZERO risk of testicular cancer, spayed dogs have a MUCH reduced risk of Mammary Cancer, and a ZERO risk of uterine cancer. Neutering is not a cure all by any means, BUT an intact dog will travel MILES for a bitch in heat, if it gets out of the yard.... this will stop with a neuter. I do not believe in leaving ANY dog intact that is not a perfect specimen of the breed, and therefore used for breeding. besides, heats for an intact female can be hard on them, and you run a MAJOR risk of unwanted puppies.
On that principle, I could remove my dog's leg in case it gets a malignant tumour on it. Actually, in my breed, my dog is far more likely to have a malignant lump develop on his leg, than he is to get testicular cancer...so perhaps I should have a chat to my vet and we can weigh up which other parts of his anatomy he can live a life without that he may get cancer in or on.

I, as I have said, have had entire males for a very long time and have had absolutely no accidental litters. Not one. My dogs are kept under tight control. Please do not patronise those of us who keep our dogs entire and blame us for the unwanted pups in the world. The majority of dogs in shelters are from matings that were done on purpose, generally by byb, not matings from rogue entire, wandering males 'accidentally' mating the local bitches.

I have given specific reason why I choose not to neuter. I stick by them. If there is ever a reason to do so I will neuter, but I am not risking my dog's physical or mental health,I know for sure, should I neuter him he will be one of the many neutered males who attract the attention of other dogs and will spend his time in the park being humped senseless...it already happens. He is a big girls blouse,I am not risking it happening anymore. Nor am I putting a young dog through what I consider to be an unnecessary GA at a point in his life where he is still growing and learning, it would not have a great impact on his immune system.

My decision is a very well thought out decision based upon years of my own experience and a lot of reading and discussion. I stand by it.

I think it is irresponisble to advocate a blanket neutering policy...as it opens up all sorts of questions doesn't it? Like who decides which dogs can be bred from and how is it to be monitored.

My dog will not be bred from...he to be honest really is clueless in that respect anyway, he truly did run away from a bitch in season who was doing everything she could to court him. He is keeping his furry plums.
Originally Posted by Lionhound View Post
Sorry but I am not being made feel like an irresponsible owner because I refuse to put my dog through a totally un-necessary anaesthetic (mortality risk) because I have made an informed choice not to neuter. I would never say it is right for everyone not to and believe in doing what is right for your own dog. I have always had intact males and never has one travelled miles to get his end away. They have never had any behavioural or health issues connected to being intact and have never been resposible for producing unwanted or infact any pups.
Beau will keep his ginger nuts unless losing them is of benefit to him.
Well said and I couldn't agree more.
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labradork
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03-04-2009, 08:26 AM
I do not believe in leaving ANY dog intact that is not a perfect specimen of the breed, and therefore used for breeding. besides, heats for an intact female can be hard on them, and you run a MAJOR risk of unwanted puppies.
Ditto.

People can deny it all they want, but the need to reproduce is a biological instinct in all animals, dogs included. So keeping a dog intact for a purpose it is never going to forfil is unfair on that animal.

If everyone responsibly spayed and neutered their pet dogs, the world (well, the dog world at least) would be a much better place. Fewer unwanted litters, fewer out of control intact dogs that continuously pester others...

Removing the testicles from an otherwise healthy, mature dog isn't the major dramatic operation that some would like you to believe. All studies that point towards NEGATIVE consequences of neutering have been on dogs that have been neutered before they have matured physically. There is no evidence that neutering a physically matured dog is of detriment to their health.
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Ramble
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03-04-2009, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Ditto.

People can deny it all they want, but the need to reproduce is a biological instinct in all animals, dogs included. So keeping a dog intact for a purpose it is never going to forfil is unfair on that animal.

If everyone responsibly spayed and neutered their pet dogs, the world (well, the dog world at least) would be a much better place. Fewer unwanted litters, fewer out of control intact dogs that continuously pester others...

Removing the testicles from an otherwise healthy, mature dog isn't the major dramatic operation that some would like you to believe. All studies that point towards NEGATIVE consequences of neutering have been on dogs that have been neutered before they have matured physically. There is no evidence that neutering a physically matured dog is of detriment to their health.
Who decides they are a 'perfect' specimen of the breed though? Isn't this something that is causing massive problems in the pedigree world right now. Who then decides who mates to who...is that the end of 'mutts' and cross breeds (I sincerely hope not).

My entire males are not allowed to pester other dogs.
My entire males have not produced an unwanted litter.

I know plenty of humans who are celibate and have been throughout their lives and happily so. Should I suggest to them that we should remove their reproductive organs so that they don't spend the rest of their lives wanting something they can't/won't have???? That argument doesn't stand up to me...neuter them because they will never have sex so it's not fair for them to keep their reproductive organs. Should I also go and neuter my son's hamster then?
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labradork
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03-04-2009, 08:37 AM
Should I also go and neuter my son's hamster then?
You cannot compare a hamster to a dog. A Syrian hamster is a solitary animal that, in a captive environment, won't come across another hamster for the duration of its life. Other small furry animals though (rabbits, guinea pigs, etc.) - absolutely should you neuter the males as they are social group living animals, like dogs.
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Lionhound
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03-04-2009, 08:39 AM
I found this article balanced
http://www.homeopathicvet.co.uk/pdf%...th%20links.pdf
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Ramble
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03-04-2009, 08:41 AM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
You cannot compare a hamster to a dog. A Syrian hamster is a solitary animal that, in a captive environment, won't come across another hamster for the duration of its life. Other small furry animals though (rabbits, guinea pigs, etc.) - absolutely should you neuter the males as they are social group living animals, like dogs.
But a Syrian hamster still has sexual urges and a desire to reproduce and they do given half a chance. You said that it wasn't fair to keep a dog entire if it was never going to have sex because of the sexual urges it would feel. I am just saying my son has a hamster...should I remove his testicles (the hamsters, not my sons) because then he won't feel any urges. Maybe he can also smell my neighbours female Syrian hamster when she is ready to be mated?

My point is...you said it wasn't fair to keep a dog entire if it was never going to have sex because the dog would have sexual urges. I said that on that basis I should have the hamster neutered...and my friends who have opted to live a celibate lifestyle.
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labradork
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03-04-2009, 08:50 AM
But a Syrian hamster still has sexual urges and a desire to reproduce and they do given half a chance.
Animals have varying degrees of 'sexual urges'. Hamsters are not particularly sexual animals because they are solitary, rather than group living animals. A male hamster will only mate with a female when she is in estrus, which she comes into every few days. Put them together at any other time apart from when she is in estrus and they will fight, potentially to death. The only time he is interested in her sexually and vice versa is when she is in estrus. As 95% of people have no desire to breed their hamsters, this isn't an issue, therefore he is not 'frustrated'. For dogs it is totally different. Dogs are out meeting other dogs, smelling were female bitches (especially those that are in season) have been EVERY day. Incomparable to a male hamster that is never around female hamsters.
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Lucky Star
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03-04-2009, 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by Sara'n'Scout View Post
I'm sorry I'm gonna jump in here. EVERY dog who is not going to be bred should be spayed or neutered! waiting 'till their a year old is a good idea, but sometimes, like in this case, neutering early is a good idea so the "male" behaviors dont become habit. accidental litters DO NOT NEED to happen and as overcrowded as shelters are, we dont need to bring more puppies in to this world. Dogs that are neutered have a ZERO risk of testicular cancer, spayed dogs have a MUCH reduced risk of Mammary Cancer, and a ZERO risk of uterine cancer. Neutering is not a cure all by any means, BUT an intact dog will travel MILES for a bitch in heat, if it gets out of the yard.... this will stop with a neuter. I do not believe in leaving ANY dog intact that is not a perfect specimen of the breed, and therefore used for breeding. besides, heats for an intact female can be hard on them, and you run a MAJOR risk of unwanted puppies.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion , and I do understand where you are coming from, although I disagree with you. My dog wll remain intact unless there is a medical reason to consider otherwise. I would not put him through an unnecessary GA or surgery in case he developed a problem elsewhere in his body. You can't just go chopping bits off in case a cancer or whatever develops at some point. Incidentally, I have never been put under any pressure by my vet(S) to consider neutering.

Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
On that principle, I could remove my dog's leg in case it gets a malignant tumour on it. Actually, in my breed, my dog is far more likely to have a malignant lump develop on his leg, than he is to get testicular cancer...so perhaps I should have a chat to my vet and we can weigh up which other parts of his anatomy he can live a life without that he may get cancer in or on.

I, as I have said, have had entire males for a very long time and have had absolutely no accidental litters. Not one. My dogs are kept under tight control. Please do not patronise those of us who keep our dogs entire and blame us for the unwanted pups in the world. The majority of dogs in shelters are from matings that were done on purpose, generally by byb, not matings from rogue entire, wandering males 'accidentally' mating the local bitches.

I have given specific reason why I choose not to neuter. I stick by them. If there is ever a reason to do so I will neuter, but I am not risking my dog's physical or mental health,I know for sure, should I neuter him he will be one of the many neutered males who attract the attention of other dogs and will spend his time in the park being humped senseless...it already happens. He is a big girls blouse,I am not risking it happening anymore. Nor am I putting a young dog through what I consider to be an unnecessary GA at a point in his life where he is still growing and learning, it would not have a great impact on his immune system.

My decision is a very well thought out decision based upon years of my own experience and a lot of reading and discussion. I stand by it.

I think it is irresponisble to advocate a blanket neutering policy...as it opens up all sorts of questions doesn't it? Like who decides which dogs can be bred from and how is it to be monitored.

My dog will not be bred from...he to be honest really is clueless in that respect anyway, he truly did run away from a bitch in season who was doing everything she could to court him. He is keeping his furry plums.


Well said and I couldn't agree more.
I agree with you, Ramble.
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