Good point!


You cant test for something you have no knowledge of


What about the un-man made species , do the same rules apply?

As already pointed out - what you don't know about can't be tested for - however, a condition is most likely to be in a breed rather than a specific line - because most breeds start from their own very small gene pool - so exactly the same problem arises. It is only theory that intimates the cessation of genetic conditions through outcrossing.

Pick a breed and study the pedigrees (and not just recent pedigrees) and the conditions arising - and you will see what I mean.

Outcrossing over greater than 5 generations is unlikely to be possible.

A quote taken from linebreeding on cattle

Inbreeding Systems
The inbreeding systems of half-sib, full-sib and parent offspring matings are the most severe types of inbreeding that can be practiced with livestock

Would someone like to explain how much tighter you can get than parent to child and full siblings?

are you all turning veggie now as a protest?

Just out of interest....what is the life expectancy of the cattle who are line bred? Or the sheep? Of the chickens for that matter? Looking at 'food' speices is very different IMO than looking at pets who are expected (in theory) to lead a long and healthy life.

There are pets of other species bred just as closely - worth doing some research

Very few dogs are bred anywhere near that closely.

PLUS - If there is a chance of genetic conditions being passed down - are they transferable over the animal / human barrier

So in essence while what you say is correct - what you put in your mouth now could also come back to haunt people in the future

INdeed...I feel quite strongly about GM stuff as well....but sadly funds to not always allow me to be as choosey as I would like.

ETA......I think my dogs eat better than me

The breeder has to KNOW their lines inside out and back to front to be able to linebreed comfortably and do a good job of it. Ronnie's breeder could reel off all these slight characteristics he has and relate them back to his ancestors "His ears seem a bit high, but that comes from his great grandfather..any progency of his have always had quite high ears, but they right themself by x age" or "His coat colour will get exactly these shades of cream as he gets that from such n such". Obviously they are just cosmetic examples, but she also could reel of any health problems from teeth problems to more serious things that she's encounteredm (obviously not bred from these dogs etc).
Like I say, people need to know their lines inside out to be able to linebreed, well to breed at all really! But outcrossing is good, and neceseray imo.

safe to say I agree with that one

I do believe that diary cows are some of the most inbred animals in the world & this is of course at the hands of mankiond, however the Chiilingham White Cattle are also very inbred as they are an enclosed herd & number around only 90 I believe, unlike any other cattle in the UK they are completely feral & apart from conservation measures(taken in the supplementary herd) & supplementary feeding in bad weather, they are left strictly alone & supervised rather than managed. They do have a high number of dental anomalies that have been found in post mortems done on dead cattle(not culled BTW). They may well also be open to lack of disease resistance, but this has to date not been seen to have affected them.

& BTW yes I am a Vegan despite the fact that I agree with a degree of line breeding by knowledgeable breeders

@Joedee: the Chillingham cattle are very interesting - is this an example of genetic purging where selection via continued in-breeding eliminates certain deleterious mutations?

RE Livestock/vegetarianism - not sure this is a useful piece of 'whataboutery' to bring up in relation to dogs although it is absolutely correct to point out the level of inbreeding and linebreeding. Commercial livestock farming and animal welfare sit uncomfortably together anyway as the objective is not focused on raising a long-lived, healthy animal but on producing cost-effective food. I'd hope the breeding objectives for dogs are very different!

I'm sure a lot of people on here have concerns about meat production (aside from breeding practices, quality of life, nutrition and (over)use of pharma would all be issues too). Of course many people become veggie or vegan for these very reasons, but a meat-eater can support a change in approach to live-stock farming without being inconsistent and equally a dog-owner may criticise breeding practices even though their own dog may be a product of those very practices.

I think farming practises are totaly irrelivent to this thread
There are lots of things farmers do that I dont agree with, but their goals for breeding (fast growth, best meat yeild) are quite different from what the goals of a good breeder should be
and as there are many breeds of dogs whos life expectancy is no better or worse than wild wolfs, ferral dogs and animals of that type - then I wouldnt say the breeders are doing a great job considering they are in control of what animals breed