It would also put the dog between a rock and a hard place if the Westie decided to be aggressive! It would also be likely to become an association with other dogs and make MM's dog MORE aggressive.

So many chances of it going very wrong.

rune

also...how would it have worked in that situation anyway? he said he haddnt seen the westie..then his dog snapped then came away?

MichalM
I know your pain, really I do
Everyone has good days and bad days, how I always looks at it is 18 months ago every day was a bad day - now I can go weeks without a bad day - looking at the big picture that is fab progress

and TBH going by what you said there the behaviour really wasnt so bad, one snap at a dog that startled him, I know people who have dogs they think they have no issues with who are far worse than that

Your dog sounds a bit unconfident, jumpy not sure of other dogs
Ignore what everyone else is saying - do YOU really think an e collar will help build his confidence??

I completely agree - and I don`t use a `method`, I just try to work from where the dog is. Maybe there should be a new theory - dog-centred learning? All these theories presuppose a blank slate and laboratory conditions - and there ain`t no such thing in the real world.
Life (and learning) is a winding path - flexibility and a good sense of humour are far more important in teaching kids or dogs than a rule book.

Yes, usually those who have tried everything either haven't, or have tried say one thing, or two things, and not been consistent at all. They've not had good timing or not done what they should have done. Perhaps just not dedicated enough time to training, simples.

I've never actually met anyone who was literally speaking the truth, after a little gentle probing, when they've claimed they've "tried everything"

Wys
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That's what I was thinking! in which case the owner was heading for a fall to start with

ETA: just seen it WAS BBs!! Unbelievable they charge this appalling amount. But don't they guarantee results? If so the owner could pursue lack of results with them?

To be honest, if the help the owner previously had was BB though, they are not erm very good trainers in the sense that they - well, they don't train with good accepted methods, put it like that.

Wys
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Is it OK to ask how he is now better behaved - ie what were you told to do about it, how has the problem been tackled?
I'm guessing he was lunging at other dogs previously?
Dogs who have arthritis can be like this as in some cases, they are afraid of other dogs getting too close.
Then they realise lunging works, then you have a strong learning and reward situation

Why does he have no recall in other environments? I mean do you know the reason for this at all?
Have you been shown how to train for distractions and how to graduate from house to garden to quiet area to slightly more distractive, etc etc?
Or are you concerned he may go for other dogs, rather than recll?

That is heartwarming to read, and really good for him and I suspect you also, to see him playing

I'd like to see this on a video. It's hard to tell from your post but if it was an air snap, I'd say considering he was surprised, he actually behaved very well?

Wys
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I've a story

I used to walk with a dog social group run by a good trainer/behaviourist. A large male dobe who was dog aggressive was improving lots. Long story short - one day his owner was putting him in the car and another owner allowed 3 small dogs to run fast, barking, up to him. Naturally, he reacted, barked and lunged at them. His owner felt he had gone so backward that he took him away and sent him to boot camp where he had a shock collar used on him.
He came back more aggressive
He eventually ended up with a well known rehab person but not sure what happened after that.
So yes, a shock collar would not help, it didn't help Shads.

But I think for me, the dog reacted fairly normally for a guarding breed in that particular, tight situation. Even my dog, well trained and owned since a puppy, might lunge/snap at rude dogs who charged up whilst she was at her car. Depends, but it is possible. She would if she was surprised and unnerved.
I'd consider that normal canine behaviour.

Wys
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I know a lot of peeps hate the idea of OC but I must just say, it was taken right out of the lab by the Brelands and Bailey, then Karen Pryor. I know Dunbar says it's all lab stuff but I do disagree with him there - well sort of - I like him and have a lot of time for him
I've met him, he did a tiny bit of work with my dog, and he's full of wisdom and is a guru of mine

Thing is, the Brelands/Baileys literally did take the OC out of the lab right into pet and other training. They did many tricks with chickens and loads of other species, but also they did huge, scary training on which the lives of humans depended on getting it right - in the wars. I don't like animals being involved in wars, but my heck the trainign was nothing short of phenomenal.

However, what i think is not so easy is that although OC does work, it'snot always so easy for owners to grasp.

I think there's room for both really - more dog centred and more sciencey - anything to help the dogs
I agree science does not answer everything. And that we should not always look at dogs with sciencey eyes otherwise the soul is taken out of the relationship.
JMO though!

Wys
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Hi wys

i didnt even know Dunbar was saying this stuff until you told me a few days ago

good for him, i think he is a top bloke too
i had a good night in the pub with him once

i remember just thru my everyday work with dogs in rescue in 1999 all these people that kept making comments like i shouldnt lay on the floor and play with the dogs, as they will think i am a dog too and boss me about.

i knew nothing about dogs then, but just remember thinking what the heck are they on about, surely it is a good thing im on the floor playing with dogs, we were all having fun!

then i saw dunbar in 2000, and he put into good concepts what i had been instinctivley thinking all along....dominance was pants.

now it seems he has done the same thing again!
except this time i do know about dogs and learning theory and all the rest of it and have come to my own conclusions via several avenues and my own intuitive work as a trainer .