Thanks C & D! All very interesting and informative but again, peoples' opinions! Just because they have letters after their name, doesn't make them right It doesn't make them wrong either My point is that we all see what we see and make our own opinions regarding what we observe. It's just that some people on here try to destroy peoples beliefs on what they see regarding CM (this has happened on virtually every CM discussion I've seen on Dogsey). It doesn't offend or annoy me that you, Mahooli......................the list is endless, feel that CM is not right in his approach, yet there seems this overwhelming urge by those who are not in agreement with CM, to make him out to be a devil in a man's body! I just don't get it

To be honest, I've said so many times that I won't get involved in a CM debate, as it always goes round in circles and nobody gets anywhere It's just that when I see "violent" and other such inappropriate wording regarding this man that has helped so many people in understanding their dogs' behaviour and helping to deal with it, it makes me feel like I need to put in a word. However, I do realise it is falling on deaf ears

how about this then?

Several instances of cruel and dangerous treatment that are promoted as acceptable training methods have been recorded by the American Humane Association.

For example, in one episode an unruly dog was held down by its neck after having been hung by a tight collar at the hands of Millan. This would have partially cut off the blood supply to the dog's brain and partially asphyxiated the animal. If a member of the public were to be seen treating their dog in such manner they would be prosecuted for animal abuse.

President of the Animal Protection Services for the Society, Bill Torgerson, DVM, MBA noted that the safety of a woman with a GSD was jeopardised in one episode by the use of an electric shock collar. The tormented dog redirected its aggression to its owner biting her arm. Television audiences never saw Millan attempt to modify the dog's behaviour by causing pain.

In fact a television producer, Floyd Suarez sued Cesar Millan for injuries that his dog allegedly sustained whilst having behavioural training at Millan's facility. Suarez says that his dog was overworked on a treadmill and suffered from the use of a choke collar. Suarez found his dog bleeding from the nose and mouth, gasping for breath in an oxygen tent. The dog also had severe bruising to his rear inner thighs.

Again, your opinion that I'm not recognising these signs You must realise that your thoughts are YOUR thoughts just as your OPINIONS are your opinions. We all have those

Yes, violence. I consider many of his methods to be overtly violent, these include the kicks, finger jabs, forced pins and the hangings he regularly gives dogs. I think he also intentionally puts the dogs into negative situations in order to "dominate" the behavior out of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRAQXOAMz0&

Im not saying to people not to use his methods, its up to them,

what I will say though is.................IF this is the first method you use, if your dog is really so bad you have to use these methods, you left it to long to work on the dog, let the behaviour get to far.

Is all of that fact C & D, as in brought to Court and so on. You know the old saying "innocent until proven guilty" and all that You say CM was sued, I've not heard of this. So the legal system found him guilty of the above and the TV are still putting him on air It's all news to me

OK so this is the opinion of a vet behaviourist...

From Andrew Luescher, DVM, Veterinary Behaviorist
Animal Behavior Clinic
Purdue University

I reviewed the four preview-videotapes kindly submitted to me by National Geographic. I very much appreciate having gotten the opportunity to see these tapes before the program goes on the air. I will be happy to review any programs that deal with domestic animal behavior and training. I believe this is a responsibility of our profession.I have been involved in continuing education for dog trainers for over 10 years... I must tell you that Millan’s techniques are outdated and unacceptable not only to the veterinary community, but also to dog trainers.
The show repeatedly cautions the viewers not to attempt these techniques at home. What then is the purpose of this show? I think we have to be realistic: people will try these techniques at home, much to the detriment of their pets.

Millan’s techniques are almost exclusively based on two techniques: Flooding and positive punishment. In flooding, an animal is exposed to a fear (or aggression) evoking stimulus and prevented from leaving the situation, until it stops reacting. Flooding has therefore always been considered a risky and cruel method of treatment.

Positive punishment refers to applying an aversive stimulus or correction as a consequence of a behavior. There are many concerns about punishment aside from its unpleasantness. Punishment is entirely inappropriate for most types of aggression and for any behavior that involves anxiety. Punishment can suppress most behavior but does not resolve the underlying problem, i.e., the fear or anxiety. Even in cases where correctly applied punishment might be considered appropriate, many conditions have to be met that most dog owners can’t meet: The punishment has to be applied every time the behavior is displayed, within ½ second of the behavior, and at the correct intensity.

Most of the theoretical explanations that Millan gives regarding causes of the behavior problems are wrong. Not one of these dogs had any issue with dominance. Not one of these dogs wanted to control their owners. What he was right about was that calmness and consistency are extremely important, but they don’t make the presented methods appropriate or justifiable.

The last episode (compulsive disorder) is particularly unsettling because compulsive disorder is related to an imbalance in neurotransmitter levels or receptors, and is therefore unequivocally a medical condition. Would it be appropriate to treat obsessive compulsive disorder in people with punishment? Or have a layperson go around treating such patients?

My colleagues and I and innumerable leaders in the dog training community have worked now for decades to eliminate such cruel, ineffective (in terms of true cure) and inappropriate techniques.

Mahooli is correct. These signs/postures ect., are well documented. It's not an opinion that you don't recognize them, it is a fact.

Oh my word and people claims his dogs are well behaved when they bite the 'customers' (for want of a better word) dogs in order to stress them out to get the behaviour they want on camera
I didn't think much of CM before but he really scrapes the bottom of the barrel now!
Becky

Your opinion is does not merit consideration because it is not supported by the evidence. We already know that many of Millan's justifications for his actions vis a vis wolves and "mother nature" are patently false; his opinions on how dogs learn are wrong. And his use of metaphysics in regards to training has no place.

Feel free to slap your dog around on the word of a tv dog groomer, I have better methods that don't involve hitting them.