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CheekyChihuahua
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28-05-2009, 11:23 AM

Socialisation of dogs with children (split from the CM thread)

Originally Posted by kingbilly View Post
There has been far too much of the TV doggy trainer/behaviourist, most simply get it wrong, trouble is their misinformation can and does damage dogs both physiologically and psychologically.

What most seem to forget is a dog is an animal, one that has adapted to a sedentary human life, it doesnt hunt, it whelps very differently from its wild ancestrors, its diet is different, it no longer roams, the list is endless, so why do these trainers still harp on about the wild side, it simply has been bred out and is no longer evolutionary valid.

Training should begin with a breeder, too many of them simply havent gotta clue, most are childless and considering most pet homes will have kids wouldnt you think they would attempt to socialise correctly. A part of a pups brain simply closes off just after 4-6 weeks, so if the effective socialisation isnt commenced by then there are some tasks that the dog will never do. I always advise if a breeder says with a huge smiley "WE dont have kids " then frankly the dog you get will have some issues, now I fully understand that some of you reading this will hit the roof and have steam coming from your ears , but lets get real, most of you dont know how to socialise a litter, and many of you spend far too little time doing the job well, this can be due to work committments, I know of one breeder who works all day in Tesco then grooms for profit other dogs when she gets home, she sees little of any pups she has or indeed her own dogs...A pup should never display absolute fear to a human , yet I see it daily when I get in rescue pups and dogs, yet these breeders are placing themselves up as experts in the showing world of dogs, they are giving out incorrect and dangerous health advice and people buying their pups are so daft and gullible they fall for it. I know of one woman who simply believes that everything from her breeders mouth is true , even when he gave advice that she should feed her toy pup 10g of dry feed per day.

Will some people ever learn... I doubt it !
Well, I breed and my pups are socialised from day 1. I have three children and I make sure that they start to handle the pups by week 3. The pups I have produced are wonderful pets! However, my Mentor does not have children, yet I have three of her dogs (got from her as pups) and they are all wonderful with children. Particularly one that is so wonderful with children, I always take her to meet disabled children and so on, because I am 100% confident that no matter what they do, shout or whatever else, she would never show aggression. She just doesn't have it in her. She is confident and loves children unconditionally! So that kind of blows the theory that pups need to be bred with children around - sorry - but my Tiani (the dog I just spoke of) never saw a child until 8 weeks of age. I would disagree vehemently with any dog owner that says their dog is more child-friendly than her

I appreciate what you are saying, as some breeders think it's a case of putting a dog with a bitch, assisting the bitch to have the pups, feed the bitch, wean the pups and off they go when they are eight weeks to their new homes. However, that is not always the case and I think it's a little unfair to say that breeders that don't have children will basically produce pups with issues (sorry if I've taken it wrong but that's how I read your post) as it is simply, from first hand experience, incorrect
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Shona
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28-05-2009, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by kingbilly View Post
There has been far too much of the TV doggy trainer/behaviourist, most simply get it wrong, trouble is their misinformation can and does damage dogs both physiologically and psychologically.

What most seem to forget is a dog is an animal, one that has adapted to a sedentary human life, it doesnt hunt, it whelps very differently from its wild ancestrors, its diet is different, it no longer roams, the list is endless, so why do these trainers still harp on about the wild side, it simply has been bred out and is no longer evolutionary valid.

Training should begin with a breeder, too many of them simply havent gotta clue, most are childless and considering most pet homes will have kids wouldnt you think they would attempt to socialise correctly. A part of a pups brain simply closes off just after 4-6 weeks, so if the effective socialisation isnt commenced by then there are some tasks that the dog will never do. I always advise if a breeder says with a huge smiley "WE dont have kids " then frankly the dog you get will have some issues, now I fully understand that some of you reading this will hit the roof and have steam coming from your ears , but lets get real, most of you dont know how to socialise a litter, and many of you spend far too little time doing the job well,
Really! Im so glad we have an expert here now to guide us.
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Shona
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28-05-2009, 11:49 AM
sadly I have no young kids in my home now, my son was 15 coming up 16 when the last litter arrived.

yet, those pups are now adults, who are handled by kids and winning awards,

holly {rottiie} & kayleigh 10yrs,


healwork

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CheekyChihuahua
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28-05-2009, 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
sadly I have no young kids in my home now, my son was 15 coming up 16 when the last litter arrived.

yet, those pups are now adults, who are handled by kids and winning awards,

holly {rottiie} & kayleigh 10yrs,


healwork

Another theory just blown out of the water - thanks Shona Makes you wonder where some people get their ideas from

That post stating that breeders without children are rearing pups with "issues" is really quite damaging to some blooming good breeders out there I hope that anybody looking on the site for info to help them choose a breeder for a pup just totally ignores the said post. It clearly is very misleading!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, Holly is a credit to you. You must be brimming with pride. I know I would be if I had bred that gorgeous girl
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Shona
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28-05-2009, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
Another theory just blown out of the water - thanks Shona Makes you wonder where some people get their ideas from

That post stating that breeders without children are rearing pups with "issues" is really quite damaging to some blooming good breeders out there I hope that anybody looking on the site for info to help them choose a breeder for a pup just totally ignores the said post. It clearly is very misleading!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, Holly is a credit to you. You must be brimming with pride. I know I would be if I had bred that gorgeous girl
I would really like to know, what these issues are! just so I know to watch out for em.

shes a bloody diva, tbh, she works really well for kids, Im thinking of asking alanna to take her into the show ring this year, she just seems to really enjoy working for a child, she gives that extra little bit.

my lot are all handled by kids, they seem to really love it.
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labradork
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28-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by kingbilly View Post
There has been far too much of the TV doggy trainer/behaviourist, most simply get it wrong, trouble is their misinformation can and does damage dogs both physiologically and psychologically.

What most seem to forget is a dog is an animal, one that has adapted to a sedentary human life, it doesnt hunt, it whelps very differently from its wild ancestrors, its diet is different, it no longer roams, the list is endless, so why do these trainers still harp on about the wild side, it simply has been bred out and is no longer evolutionary valid.

Training should begin with a breeder, too many of them simply havent gotta clue, most are childless and considering most pet homes will have kids wouldnt you think they would attempt to socialise correctly. A part of a pups brain simply closes off just after 4-6 weeks, so if the effective socialisation isnt commenced by then there are some tasks that the dog will never do. I always advise if a breeder says with a huge smiley "WE dont have kids " then frankly the dog you get will have some issues, now I fully understand that some of you reading this will hit the roof and have steam coming from your ears , but lets get real, most of you dont know how to socialise a litter, and many of you spend far too little time doing the job well, this can be due to work committments, I know of one breeder who works all day in Tesco then grooms for profit other dogs when she gets home, she sees little of any pups she has or indeed her own dogs...
A pup should never display absolute fear to a human , yet I see it daily when I get in rescue pups and dogs, yet these breeders are placing themselves up as experts in the showing world of dogs, they are giving out incorrect and dangerous health advice and people buying their pups are so daft and gullible they fall for it. I know of one woman who simply believes that everything from her breeders mouth is true , even when he gave advice that she should feed her toy pup 10g of dry feed per day.

Will some people ever learn... I doubt it !
Rubbish. What are you basing this little gem on? my current Lab never saw a child until he was 8 weeks old (his breeders are in their 70's) and I defy you to find a dog that is better with children.

You are mistaking nurture for nature. Temperament is obviously shaped by the environment, but is predominately genetic. I know of a Springer Spaniel that was socialized intensely and has owners that care for him deeply, but the dog is still terrified of other people and dogs. His temperament has little to do with the way he was raised but is as a result of bad breeding.
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Wysiwyg
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28-05-2009, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
..
holly {rottiie} & kayleigh 10yrs,


healwork


Wow what a lovely rottie and child, so nice to see

Wys
x
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Shona
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28-05-2009, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Wow what a lovely rottie and child, so nice to see

Wys
x
thank you x
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Reisu
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28-05-2009, 02:17 PM
My dog was in breeding/racing/rescue kennels for the first 7 years of his life, and had never been inside a house or known anything but that environment... He's still good with kids, and he's not terrified of everything outside of a kennel environment either if dogs couldn't adapt to things that they hadn't encountered in their first 4-6 weeks to the extent that it was detrimental to their outlook on life, they would have died out long ago.

Holly looks gorgeous there Shona, you must be really proud of her
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JanieM
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28-05-2009, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
sadly I have no young kids in my home now, my son was 15 coming up 16 when the last litter arrived.

yet, those pups are now adults, who are handled by kids and winning awards,

holly {rottiie} & kayleigh 10yrs,


healwork

]
That's the image people need to see more of. Lovely pics.

Going OT here but last night I had a dream about your dogs Shona. I'm not sure how many you have but there were 3 in my dream and at first I was scared of them but they were so friendly and cuddly that I soon got over that. You weren't there but somehow I knew they were your dogs.........think I am spending way too much time reading stuff on here to be having dreams about your dogs!!!!
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