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SLB
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25-04-2011, 02:05 PM

Sadie's naughtiness.

Sadie has always been a star when it came to being a role model. Lately her Leave has disappeared. The other week I placed my dinner in front of her and told her to leave - they always get my left overs (depending on the food) anyway and she normally doesn't touch food on plates but I turned round to see her licking my melted cheese!

I thought - maybe it's just an odd cheeky thing so left it at that - I've just given her and Louie a treat and left one on the table for Benjie - when he came to me - went to sneak up on Louie down the garden - gave her a leave command - turned round 10 seconds later - she'd jumped on the table and was running off with Benjie's treat. She's not hungry, she'd had her dinner the other week when licking my melted cheese and I've fed her a bit of tuna before I took them out.. Could it be just a bit of cheek or do I have to go over basic's again with her?
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smokeybear
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25-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Insufficiently trained
Insufficiently proofed
Insufficiently generalised

Combined with too high expectations from owner.
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Collie Convert
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25-04-2011, 02:20 PM
I agree with the above. Was there particular reason that you left your dinner in front of her? Thats an awfully high value item to be asked to leave- especially with a dog that isnt yours and doesnt live in your home (i only mention this because you dont know what sort of training is going on or behaviour is allowed etc when she is away from you)
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SLB
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25-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Insufficiently trained
Insufficiently proofed
Insufficiently generalised

Combined with too high expectations from owner.
I have to disagree with you there.

It is proofed because a couple of months ago I proved to my brother that the dogs would leave his food alone if he left it on the table - by leaving my plate of food on the floor - both Sadie and Louie followed me into the kitchen despite there being food on the floor with only a leave command.

But thinking about it - she isn't my dog and lives with toddlers - so they could be my problem..
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SLB
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25-04-2011, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
I agree with the above. Was there particular reason that you left your dinner in front of her? Thats an awfully high value item to be asked to leave- especially with a dog that isnt yours and doesnt live in your home (i only mention this because you dont know what sort of training is going on or behaviour is allowed etc when she is away from you)
Oh I was changing batteries in the remote - she always gets a treat when she's left something - just not what she has been told to leave.
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smokeybear
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25-04-2011, 02:27 PM
It is proofed because a couple of months ago I proved to my brother that the dogs would leave his food alone if he left it on the table - by leaving my plate of food on the floor - both Sadie and Louie followed me into the kitchen despite there being food on the floor with only a leave command

A one off success is not a demonstration of adequacy of proofing.

However, just supposing you are correct and you HAVE proofed it:

1 What is your interpretation of "proofing"?
2 How many times have you done this successfully to make this conclusion?

If you have sufficiently trained, proofed and generalised this training, then why would she exhibit this behaviour?

I tend to look in the mirror when my dogs "fail" as it is 99.99% likely that I am the cause.

But, maybe you are right, the dog is being "cheeky".
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SLB
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25-04-2011, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
It is proofed because a couple of months ago I proved to my brother that the dogs would leave his food alone if he left it on the table - by leaving my plate of food on the floor - both Sadie and Louie followed me into the kitchen despite there being food on the floor with only a leave command

A one off success is not a demonstration of adequacy of proofing.

However, just supposing you are correct and you HAVE proofed it:

1 What is your interpretation of "proofing"?
2 How many times have you done this successfully to make this conclusion?

If you have sufficiently trained, proofed and generalised this training, then why would she exhibit this behaviour?

I tend to look in the mirror when my dogs "fail" as it is 99.99% likely that I am the cause.

But, maybe you are right, the dog is being "cheeky".
I understand what you are saying and I trained her the same way Louie is trained - a different tone of voice, due to them both being sensitive to pitch - could her age affect the command - she has started showing little signs of deafness lately more than a few months ago - she can hear loud noises - perhaps I didn't say my command loud enough - I've just done a leave exercise with her and she's done it fine.
I do think the toddlers count for something, the 2 year old has a habit of just giving the dog food when no one is looking and then sort of egging her on when he's put food on the ground for her - he does it with Louie too when we go to visit.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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25-04-2011, 02:37 PM
Nothing is ever really 100% proofed imo, dogs are learning all the time and things can slip - with toddlers around I would say that is a likely cause of a leave it slipping

But now she has broke her 'leave' then you do have to work on it some more, licking cheese is a pretty big reward
I do think you were asking a little much there
yes train a really good leave - but also keep stuff out of temptations way - because it is all to easy to test if 'leave' means 'can I sniff?' 'take a wee lick' 'a tiny bite'
and the behaviour slips
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SLB
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25-04-2011, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Nothing is ever really 100% proofed imo, dogs are learning all the time and things can slip - with toddlers around I would say that is a likely cause of a leave it slipping

But now she has broke her 'leave' then you do have to work on it some more, licking cheese is a pretty big reward
I do think you were asking a little much there

yes train a really good leave - but also keep stuff out of temptations way - because it is all to easy to test if 'leave' means 'can I sniff?' 'take a wee lick' 'a tiny bite'
and the behaviour slips
Perhaps I was. But she's only done it the twice and after she's done it - I've took her out for some leave it games and a bit of basics..same as I do with the pup and Benjie. They are always in a leave command when I am putting their food out though.

Guess it's back to basics and battling yet another toddler, when Kasey now 5 was 2 she did the same thing.

3 more years and it should pass..
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Wozzy
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25-04-2011, 07:31 PM
Just as an example, my dogs never counter surf and we always leave all kinds of food on the surfaces without problems. We've even had a full cooked chicken and various roasts left on top of the cooker to cool and none of the dogs have touched them. Last week my Mum left a cheesy topped baguette on the counter as she was going to make herself a roll. Flynn plucked it from the cellophane and ate it. Now, why did he do that to a cheesy topped roll and not a nice roast chicken?

Anyway, trouble is once dogs have success at something, they are more likely to take their chances and repeat the behaviour again.
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