I still wouldn't rate breeders who supply to petshops very highly either. A good breeder keeps track of their breeding lines incase health issues show up further down the line and how can a breeder keep track of this kind of information if they're selling to a petshop who'll then sell to anyone with the money?
I have a lot of respect for the way breeding is done in the rat fancy - reputable breeders have a strict set of ethics, higher expectations of potential new homes than "I've got a tenner" and will keep in touch with the new owner to see how the rats are doing and whether any issues in health or temperament have cropped up. I've known breeders to stop entire lines because things like an apparent proneness to tumours or aggression has shown up a few generations down the line - this is much more responsible and none of these breeders would dream of supplying a petshop with "stock"

after reading through this thread....

i dont agree where they get their animals from... rodent farms are as bad as puppy farms in my opinion.

however im wondering if different PAH are different? ive only ever been into my local one, so havent sene alot of what youre describing.

yes the cages are small, however they do follow the rspca guidelines. i did an assignment on cage sizes in pet shops while i was at college. and pets at home cages follow the guidelines. they dont have to be as big because the rspca assume the animals are not going to be living there its just a "holding area" as such.

as for people saying they have seen 4 syrians in one cage, the most i have seen in our local one is 2, but normally there is just one. ive never seen any animals fighting. the rats are in groups and the degus, but these are social animals so i think its ok.
the animals seem well looked after at our local PAH. the only thing i have ever noticed and reported it straight away which they also sorted straight away was that a bearded dragon's water bowl had got a film of sand over the top where they had flicked sand into it, so i told them and they changed it straight away.

i think the staff there are really helpful and seem to know wha theyre doing. just saying that maybe not all Pets at home are the same?

The staff in our local PAH are useless! When they had a Vet surgery at the back, they sold 2 female Guinea Pigs to my niece, one had babies within 4 days! The other was a male and made the female pregnant again. They had no idea, they had been "checked" by their Vets too!

I was recently at the same store, Guinea Pigs were fighting, they had just introduced 4 new ADULTS into the existing ones! The woman said she didnt know which one was causing it, I showed her which one attacked the others but she was too scared to pick it up in case it bit her! I took it out for her!

oh dear that doesnt sound good. im thinking my pets at home sounds pretty good compared to some other peoples stories.

Yes I think you are lucky. Its a shame really, I use mine often, they now sell live Lizard food, so its very useful.

I actually never said it was okay of you read my posts...but I do actually believe there are worse places. Tell PAH not me.
Sulu living til 3 isn't anecdotal it's a fact...


I asked you if I shouldn't have rehomed the hamster...still waiting for a reply by the way...
I never said it was okay!!!!!! I said they aren't all bad...I said they are, at least, doing their bit...
I have a hamster...he 's a rescue from PAH (but not originally bought there).
My local pet shops don't stock livestock.

I ain't buying any animal from free ads....

yes ive seen the live food i really want some reptiles (i want a snake and a chamelon sp?)

cant really fault my pets at home, except sometimes they could do with some more staff on the tills when its busy but other than that theyre great.

Sounds good...are they easy to find?
Finding a reputable hamster breeder when we looked was almost impossible...I didn't want someone who had had an accidental litter, that seemed almost 2 faced...I wanted someone as you have described. No one...I couldn't find one. I am sure they are out there but I couldn't find one and I looked! So....yes,we ended up at PAH...couldn't find a rescue one either...
Mine are fine. We have used 2...fine. Wouldn't rate the vet who told them Screech was a girl though.... Even I spotted the obvious
He isn't particularly easy to handle though....

There are worse places.

Not that I condone rat farming...rodent farming etc...but there are worse places...

Not good....

A Leopard Gecko makes a great first reptile. This is my first, I was told they live about 7yrs. "Elvis" will be 11 in April!

Anecdotal means based on personal observation, that's not to say it's not a fact but it's just an observation from your one hamster, not from a big scientific study of the lifespan of hamsters from petshops or anything.
You can get people who smoke 40 a day, live off burgers and chips and live 'til their 90s, and you can get people who eat healthily, exercise regularly and take vitamin supplements who can drop dead from a heart attack at 30, so lifespan does not necessarily indicate health, or represent the "quality" of breeding lines. I've had rescue animals that have originated from rodent farms who've lived fantastic long lives but that doesn't make the conditions they've come from acceptable.

This doesn't make it acceptable though. There are worse breeders than some of the puppy farms around but that doesn't make them OK. There's always going to be "worse", somewhere in the world - mass-bred puppies for petshops are probably kept in better conditions and have a better life than mass-bred dogs bred for meat in other parts of the world but I wouldn't use that as an argument in favour of puppy farms.