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tinkladyv
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08-06-2010, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by borderladysue View Post
I totally agree, they cannot be kept in sanctury's or put back in the wild as they would not survive or just find their way back. they are a huge problem and the only alternative is mass cull.

Or just to leave them alone and show them some respect
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borderladysue
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08-06-2010, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by tinkladyv View Post
Or just to leave them alone and show them some respect
what the same respect these two innocent little girls have been shown. so the answer is to just let them roam around and savage whatever takes their fancy that day?
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labradork
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08-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Oh dear, the anti fox people are loving this.

I think a bit of perspective is needed. Dogs hospitalize 10's of thousands of people each year, dogs kill people each year, plenty of dogs attack and kill livestock each year, plenty of dogs attack cats each year...do dogs also deserve a "mass cull"?

A single fox attacks a child so therefore they must all be culled - yeah, right.
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labradork
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08-06-2010, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by borderladysue View Post
what the same respect these two innocent little girls have been shown. so the answer is to just let them roam around and savage whatever takes their fancy that day?
Slight over reaction don't you think? again, a little tiny bit of perspective is required. Remind yourself of how many attacks, maulings and killings our domestic dogs are involved in each year. Heck, remind yourself of how many HUMANS are involved in all of those things. And yet some are singling out foxes, based on one single attack.
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tinkladyv
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08-06-2010, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by borderladysue View Post
what the same respect these two innocent little girls have been shown. so the answer is to just let them roam around and savage whatever takes their fancy that day?
No thats a hysterical comment, this is a one off, as far as im aware this has never happened before and we have had urban foxes for a long time now.
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Hali
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08-06-2010, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by tinkladyv View Post
I dont think its as simple as that, i dont think the foxes are coming into our cities, but that it us that have taken away there natural enviroment and that they have now adapted to a city life. Im not convinced that because of one incident, terrible as it is that the urban fox is a bad thing.
Go and live in Australia and you might find a snake in your back yard. I know friends in Forida often get aligators in their swimming pool, so much so that there is a man who relocates them for a living.

I think we are now just getting hysterical in this country, we need to understand that our wildlife is an important part of our world and learn to live alongside it with respect, nature is very clever and we dont need to interfere...the urban fox is a perfect example of this.
Re the aligators - yes some are relocated, others are killed - depending on whether they are deemed a threat to humans or not and whether there is somewhere safe they can be released. I think most people have agreed that you can't relocate an urban fox to the wild - it just wouldn't know what to do without bins to raid - attacking a still baby is one thing - catching a running rabbit is another)

And as for living alongside wildlife - what all of it? So do we just leave the rats to multiply in our towns?

Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Oh dear, the anti fox people are loving this.

I think a bit of perspective is needed. Dogs hospitalize 10's of thousands of people each year, dogs kill people each year, plenty of dogs attack and kill livestock each year, plenty of dogs attack cats each year...do dogs also deserve a "mass cull"?

A single fox attacks a child so therefore they must all be culled - yeah, right.
There is more to it than that though. The fox has no natural predator. in the wild they die off in harsh winters etc according to the availability of rabbits and other prey...i.e. nature does its own job of keeping down numbers (and not in a very pleasant way). They generally keep away from humans and are afraid of us.

In the city things are different. For years they have had easy pickings from our bins etc. and as a result, urban foxes have multiplied and prospered. They've become much less fearful of humans. What will the next stage be? What happens when the oversupply means there is not enough food to go round? Will the population subside or will they just look for other types of food? Will some become tame and are foxes the 'next dog'?

I don't know whether the situation is yet so bad that a mass cull is needed, but I think this case has raised an interesting issue and one that should be considered. The fox population cannot carry on expanding indefinitely.

Foxes don't belong in cities. Yes are cities have expanded but there is still masses of open countryside to support the a very healthy fox population. If we had altogether removed their natural habitat, I would maybe think differently.

By the way - same question to you as for Tink - do you feel the same about rats - we should just live and let live?
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tinkladyv
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08-06-2010, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
Re the aligators - yes some are relocated, others are killed - depending on whether they are deemed a threat to humans or not and whether there is somewhere safe they can be released. I think most people have agreed that you can't relocate an urban fox to the wild - it just wouldn't know what to do without bins to raid - attacking a still baby is one thing - catching a running rabbit is another)

And as for living alongside wildlife - what all of it? So do we just leave the rats to multiply in our towns?



There is more to it than that though. The fox has no natural predator. in the wild they die off in harsh winters etc according to the availability of rabbits and other prey...i.e. nature does its own job of keeping down numbers (and not in a very pleasant way). They generally keep away from humans and are afraid of us.

In the city things are different. For years they have had easy pickings from our bins etc. and as a result, urban foxes have multiplied and prospered. They've become much less fearful of humans. What will the next stage be? What happens when the oversupply means there is not enough food to go round? Will the population subside or will they just look for other types of food? Will some become tame and are foxes the 'next dog'?

I don't know whether the situation is yet so bad that a mass cull is needed, but I think this case has raised an interesting issue and one that should be considered. The fox population cannot carry on expanding indefinitely.

Foxes don't belong in cities. Yes are cities have expanded but there is still masses of open countryside to support the a very healthy fox population. If we had altogether removed their natural habitat, I would maybe think differently.

By the way - same question to you as for Tink - do you feel the same about rats - we should just live and let live?
Rats and mice, we have had them both, not pleasent as they are my biggest phobia, but thats why we keep cats to catch and eat them (and they are succesful on a daily basis)and have set humane traps and released in local fields.
We just tend to live in this world that almost becomes sterile of every animal, we all have a place in it, we just need to show it some respect, culls are not the answer, nature takes acre of herself if you let her and she adapts well, it us that have all the problems interfering.
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borderladysue
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08-06-2010, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Slight over reaction don't you think? again, a little tiny bit of perspective is required. Remind yourself of how many attacks, maulings and killings our domestic dogs are involved in each year.
True, but they are as you state domestic not wild so would the owner not be responsible for such instances eg not adequate training, handling etc. and in some of these cases the domestic dog is pts. who is responsible for a fox when it attacks? its wild.

Heck, remind yourself of how many HUMANS are involved in all of those things.
True again. but again in most cases they are dealt with and removed from society, although a high percentage that are should be pts (IMO)

And yet some are singling out foxes, based on one single attack.

I think you will find this is not a single attack? (human)

P.S just for the record i am not ant-fox i just believe a wild animal belongs in its own natural habitat.
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labradork
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08-06-2010, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
Re the aligators - yes some are relocated, others are killed - depending on whether they are deemed a threat to humans or not and whether there is somewhere safe they can be released. I think most people have agreed that you can't relocate an urban fox to the wild - it just wouldn't know what to do without bins to raid - attacking a still baby is one thing - catching a running rabbit is another)

And as for living alongside wildlife - what all of it? So do we just leave the rats to multiply in our towns?



There is more to it than that though. The fox has no natural predator. in the wild they die off in harsh winters etc according to the availability of rabbits and other prey...i.e. nature does its own job of keeping down numbers (and not in a very pleasant way). They generally keep away from humans and are afraid of us.

In the city things are different. For years they have had easy pickings from our bins etc. and as a result, urban foxes have multiplied and prospered. They've become much less fearful of humans. What will the next stage be? What happens when the oversupply means there is not enough food to go round? Will the population subside or will they just look for other types of food? Will some become tame and are foxes the 'next dog'?

I don't know whether the situation is yet so bad that a mass cull is needed, but I think this case has raised an interesting issue and one that should be considered. The fox population cannot carry on expanding indefinitely.

Foxes don't belong in cities. Yes are cities have expanded but there is still masses of open countryside to support the a very healthy fox population. If we had altogether removed their natural habitat, I would maybe think differently.

By the way - same question to you as for Tink - do you feel the same about rats - we should just live and let live?
Re: foxes getting into bins...I don't know about everywhere else, but we have council-supplied wheelie bins. Foxes cannot get into these. If someone is having problem with foxes getting into their bins, perhaps they need to reconsider how they dispose of their rubbish. I've never known anyone around here having a problem with foxes and rubbish. Likewise with rats; I can't even remember the last time I saw a wild rat. Vermin are obviously attracted to food, so if you don't leave it lying around, rarely are they a problem.

As for suggesting that foxes may go around looking for some 'other' type of food (meaning human babies? ), that is just scaremongering. One incident surely cannot lead people to believe that their children may be next from the evil baby-munching foxes.
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Hali
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08-06-2010, 01:50 PM
Originally Posted by tinkladyv View Post
Rats and mice, we have had them both, not pleasent as they are my biggest phobia, but thats why we keep cats to catch and eat them (and they are succesful on a daily basis)and have set humane traps and released in local fields.
We just tend to live in this world that almost becomes sterile of every animal, we all have a place in it, we just need to show it some respect, culls are not the answer, nature takes acre of herself if you let her and she adapts well, it us that have all the problems interfering.
So you are not exactly letting mother nature sort it out - you are inteferring by humane traps and keeping cats.

What would you think if people started keeping fox hounds as a natural way of keeping down foxes? (just on their own land, of course)?
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