That's a good point Kazz, and not one I'd considered before. Jen, you might be concerned about what Indie does to other dogs, but just like with people there's always someone/something harder, more aggressive, more vicious or whatever out there.

If she's aggressive on-lead it's probably because she feels both threatened and restricted - muzzling her might even make her worse.

I hope you intend to sort out the cause of the aggression, rather than just rely on muzzling her.

hi becs, yes as ive said im gonna get her to a behaviourist asap. i kno wot u mean about the muzzle, i was thinking this also. my concern with the muzzle would be that if she still acts aggressively, another dog may not tolerate that and attack her.
to me, i would think its best if she cant defend herself so that its easier to just pull one dog away than 2 able aggressive dogs. but then would it actually be better to allow her to defend herself so that the dogs may find it easier to sort out a squabble??


dogs... who'd hav em

Hi Jen you could be right - the whole thing about agility is the people and the dogs get worked up a lot as you know bark - go absolutely mental I think myself a little OTT. But luckily Sal takes no notice and just chills out by lying down waiting her turn - ignoring the other dogs and people.
I would not take Tess yet as she gets really worked up and wants to play with everyone. But she will get better as she gets older, she is only a baby yet. And is not dog aggressive - just loopy.

Anyhow you could be right about her getting so tense that she just does not know what to do - I would have taken the "toy thing" as a sign she was getting too OTT. And as a word of warning (years of staffs) do not take this wrong JEN - do not let anyone behaviourist or not, put Indie into a situation of being on lead in an enclosed space such as a hall. I think that would be too much for her - and possibly be the straw that breaks the camels back. Try and make everything light hearted - which will be hard to do now as you will be on edge I would imagine. And tension travels down a lead.

I have no experience of muzzels so cannot say if that will be good or bad. I have to say though my last Staff Gyp - was a proper b*tch towards anything on four legs (except my two cats) but when she was younger she was never off lead around other dogs and was always biddable when on lead as she knew her manners. So I do understand your problem but she was in a one dog household and oddly enough adored the cats Oscar and Cleo. and I knew her inside out and what would trigger her buttons.

I hope you get it sorted because a dog aggressive dog is easy to spot - usually people shout it too you as you approach but a confident well adjusted dog could be Indie's downfall - and please be careful where Phoniex is concerned as she could try and help Indie if she sets upon another dog or worse she could follow her lead and start going the same way.

Karen

i was actually thinkin this b4, that a situation would need to be setup.. but not enclosed and perhaps start at a fair distance. its gonna be a hard one to overcome i think.
I think i kno indie pretty well, i mean, i kno wot sort of things will set her off, and i think i knew deep down the agility was a bad idea, but i wanted to see if i could desensitize her to the dogs, i dunno wot i was thinking. bad idea wotever it was.. it definetely opened my eyes

In that case I am sorry to be harsh but you have no one but yourself to blame - but sadly the one who will carry the can for any bad behaviour will be Indie and Staffs so don't do it to her again. Or I'll come and sort you out myself

If you think it's a bad idea in your gut - then it is a bad idea. She has to go into situations you want her to and she in turn relies on you totally to guide her into the right situations for her. You love her very much I know you do, and want the best for her so trust your own common sense girl.

Is a behaviourist covered by her insurance? It might be worth checking.

I know due to your circumstances you are on a budget and you find it is a little too much - PM me and I will see what I can do to help - I mean that. For your first intial consultation I mean.

Karen

Go talk to your vet, he/she can put you intouch with somone that Can help, Sometimes there is other reasons why the Dog is Nasty/ May be there is somthing your vet Can Sudgest.
Julie

HI Jen

Have just caught up with this thread - what a nightmare and v.sorry about the situation that occured, I definetly agree with everyone else and think you need to as you say check her out by vets to make sure physically ok and then seek behaviourist.

Re: Muzzle - I wouldnt - just experience with Bruno, I have had him muzzled initially and he is fear aggressive and the muzzle made the situation worse IMO _ it just subdues him but if he tries hard enough he can get it off and i think the whoole restriction gets his back up more if you know what I mean....

Re: Behaviourist - just be sure you choose the right one - I had no confidence in mine and didnt feel he particlarly "got" Bruno, and the program he set me on did not work and never would have IMO - so just be careful what you pay for as I felt mine was a waste of money and I have made more progress myself by socialising bruno than they ever did. HOwever this has become a gradual issue with Indie so cant be lack of socialisation,

good luck and let us know how you get on.
d

hi kazz, thanks for all ur advice. ive been checking thru indies insurance but i dont think it covers it, shes with tesco. i might phone them up to confirm that tho. i jus started a new job, only part time as thats all im allowed with lookin after my mum, so am gonna save up for a consultation.

brundog, i remember when u went to the behaviourist, i think i will try get one whos with the apbc, they are meant to be good arent they? the dog trainer i help out does behaviour consultations but i have no faith in her ablitiy as all she suggested when i asked was to put a citronella collar on her. erm, useful. i think i kno wot situations indie can and cant deal with, so maybe a case of me being more careful in the future. will def take her to vets for a check over to make sure its nothin physical then contact a behaviourist.

Excellent idea Jen.

jen you know indie better than us but this has been building up a long time with her getting worse.
contact your vet and like you said get her checked out then a prof behaviourist thats qualified.
you need to concentrate on indie and watch sash too as some of it could rub off on her.
i know you have tried your best with indie over the time you have had her but the time as come where you need help.
i don't think a muzzle will be any good as it will make her p her off before you start she never like the head lead did she?
i hope you can get some results for all of your sakes and you can start to really enjoy her.