That's fine Dawn, but you said the research shown was them 'performing tricks for our amusement' - and that's what I took issue with, because that's not the case.

Well they were performing tricks and it wasnt for their benefit, but listen Azz, we differ, we can agree to disagree. Differences make the world go round.

I work in the medical research field, working to find a cure for cancer was one of the main things I used to do, so I think it would be fair for me to say I would have an "informed" opinion of this type of research.

Dawn - research very often has far flung applications, nothing like what was originally thought of in the inital stages of the research. Who would have ever thought that NASA researching coatings on spaceships would give us Teflon coating on frying pans??

Looking at how animals learn in a research based environment has already given us clues into the genetic and environmental basis of various neurological disorders, sociopathic disorders, stress mechanisms, broad spectrum autism etc, so yes they are, in the long run, very much linked to the medical research field

Of course - differing opinions are always interesting but again to stress my point, I took issue with you suggesting that it wasn't scientific research but some sort of exercise for our amusement.

Wonder what a scientist (or someone involved in such research) would have to say about that - Oo look one just posted:

How many Dolphins, screen tapping Chimps and Octopus's were used for that?


Excuse sarcasm.

While I could understand (but not agree with) your issue with chimp and dolphins - whats the issue with the Octopus? They are not being trained to do that, that is natural behaviour for them

Oh behave i was illustrating my initial point with an amusing example, the paragraph below it is talking about behavhioural/learning studies in chimps/dolphins/octupi/rats/fruit flies/anything with a nervous system

I haven't seen the programme but I was thinking something similar.

Most definitely! This belief leads humans to think that they are superior to animals, so do to them as we wish.
In actual fact, I believe we have a lot to learn from animals, like the art to 'just be.'
Despite all the cruelty done to animals (by the human race as a whole, I know there are special people out there dedicating their lives to saving animals) I still believe that we humans have got the short straw we are ruled by 'ego' this is what separates us. We don't know how to 'just be' the way animals do, we are constantly searching for more. Animals don't care about what's in space, they don't worry about money or relationships, they haven't chopped down forests to fuel their greed.
If we could put our egos aside and live in harmony with the planet the way animals do, then maybe we wouldn't need to use animals for research to cure illness. If we didn't smoke, drink or eat junk food, if we hadn't filled the air with pollutants or stress about finance etc. then maybe we wouldn't have so many health issues. What gives us the right to make an animal suffer in order to benefit us? Who made us so special that we come before them.

I would imagine the animals would prefer we leave them well alone to live their lives as they please to be honest. I am not saying any animal research is bad, I'm saying perhaps we should step away from saying "wow, how amazing is that, we've learnt x, y, z" to "wow, how amazing is that, we've learnt x, y, z but lets not forget these are intelligent animals with needs of their own". Teaching a Parrot to speak English is great, but if it causes the Parrot to over groom through stress (my own belief) then is it really worth it? At the end of the day the Parrot gains nothing from being taught to speak English.

No I'm saying lets be cautious when using animals in research studies. See my last paragraph above.

I'm an RGN. Ethical and legal studies was my first module at University, the end does not justify the means is one of the major ethical studies used in the medical profession, but I'm not sure how that relates to this topic?

One Parrot was dead.

In the USA Mega Dairies are common, these are farms where dairy herds are kept indoors permanently to make the production of milk more profitable. I'm afraid as lovely as it would be to believe that animal research is done to improve the lives of animals, the truth is it's done in order for Humans to profit more from them.

I don't deny that research into the communication of animals is fascinating and extremely valuable, but we need to remember that they're still living, breathing animals and should be allowed to be so regardless.