Still not 'dominance' though just doing a behaviour to get what it wants, hence not to give in if that behaviour is undesireable
Becky

It could be perceived that way ! I've had nightmare dogs, dealt with (what seemed like) untrainable dogs, been around impossible dogs, and yet this behaviour isnt anything like that, it's a very calm 'attitude' if you like.

Like I said, almost impossible to explain, you need to experience it to believe it

This sums it up really well

Its the difference between a human dominating a dog and `demanding` respect from that dog compared to earning it.
Personally, I think a dogs respect which has been earned will never waver, but dogs of whom its been `demanded` will happily walk away from that person if given a choice of someone else with a more understanding approach.
Well, I don`t so much just think as have seen it time and time again in rescue dogs where its more than obvious what sort of `training` they`d had by their responses to things, and not just those trained, [ or abused ], in a heavy handed physical way if you get my drift.

I'm not keen on this 'if you havnt seen it then you dont know' attitude, I dont have a dog so people tell me i dont know. But that doesnt mean I havnt experienced dogs or seen other dogs at work and seen what does and doesnt work for each one individually. To be honest, everyone on this forum could see one dog doing one thing and we would all interpret it in our own way so its not a case of 'see it to believe it' or 'experience to believe it', its a case of my opinion vs your opinion.


Regarding the idea that repeptitive behaviour is the dog being dominant... lets take one small example. My dads Cocker jumps up when he is excited and happy and wants to play. If he jumps up my dad whacks him (not something i agree with as i said earlier) then shouts at him and if he still doesnt stop he will pin him down. But regardless of this happening without fail, the dog still jumps up when hes happy to see someone. Is he being dominant by doing that? I dont think so. Is it fair that he gets hit for it and punished for being happy to see someone? Not really. Is he confused? I expect so.

Is what your dad is doing Dominance then? Cos from your description it sounds more like cruelty, or was that the point? Does he actually crate train, and expect the dog to walk nicely on the lead without stopping every couple of minutes to sniff every lamp post? I've had a cocker spaniel and they are pretty easy to train.

And that's my view. Oh and I don't do dominance and pack hierachy, I bring my dogs up in the same way as I brought my kids up, I make the rules and set the limits and they have to follow them, the dogs like the kids have found me to be a benevolent and fair leader who takes no s**t from no one.

I would say the dog is excited where you say happy, A dog can be happy and calm which would be preferable as not everyone likes or wants to be jumped on and the dog can;t be expected to know who does and who doesn't. Your dad needs help with his training techniques frankly.

Oh i agree that limits need to be set and that you need to be fair and not take crap. I wouldnt agree that you let your dog do anything it wants. Im just talking about how you go about stopping it from doing those things!

He crates him because hes an extremely hyper dog, hes a working cocker not a show cocker. Not sure which yours is but this dog is absolutely mental and in my opinion my dad shouldnt have him.

He doesnt stop him sniffing the lamp posts etc, its more the continual nose to the ground never look up to see what hes sniffing type of sniffing that hes discouraging. But i dont agree with that either. I feel that he needs to channel that sniffinf energy into game play to stop him from getting so over excited by everything else (he gets a little over excited around other dogs and sniffs them so enthusuastically that they will tend to go for him)... he is a handful and i dont agree with the way my dad is going about it. Though I dont consider it cruelty I do consider it to be confusing and 'breaking' the dog.

He is excited... he is an extremely excitable dog... that doesnt mean he isnt happy that someone has come to see him. Just different terminology. And I know he needs help. He had a dog behaviourist in who told him to use 'domination' techniques which arent working. And he had a gundog trainer come. The dog instantly shut up and listened. But not to my dad. This is why i feel he shouldnt have him.

But were not talking about my dads dog... thats on another thread already...

Why did your dad by a cocker if he objects to cocker characteristics? How old is this dog?