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Location: UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 709
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09-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by rune 
It does if they could have done it another way---I'd be interested to know who it was and what the behaviour was.
rune
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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09-12-2010, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs
I think I was very welcome on dogchat
Not so here it seems. I think you have to be APDT to be welcomed by most on here. ?Still, a good forum, with lots of users and some interesting views. Excellent.
...mind u me thinks u give as good as u get lol
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Location: UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 709
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09-12-2010, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs
didnt realise you didnt feel welcome
...mind u me thinks u give as good as u get lol
mind u me thinks u give as good as u get lol It is not my intention to offend, or upset anyone. Never has been bever will be. Though I did once lose my temper with Adam on dogchat
and I think I said some unkind and probably even unjustified things then. 
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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09-12-2010, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs
Not to worry. I'm not here to be popular - Im here to help if I can and learn where I can.
mind u me thinks u give as good as u get lol It is not my intention to offend, or upset anyone. Never has been bever will be. Though I did once lose my temper with Adam on dogchat
and I think I said some unkind and probably even unjustified things then.
re adam.. only once
booo lol sorry for going o/t
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Location: UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 709
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09-12-2010, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs
nor mine but just cos peeps do not agree on everything doesnt mean we cant make friends too..its not just about education for me
re adam.. only once
booo lol sorry for going o/t
Actually I think Adam, has some great logic in his approach. I also have for the most part, respect for the way he conducts himself, on forums, despite a lot of errrmmmm, despite what happens to him on forums. I certainly dont agree with all of his approaches and I think he makes a lot of things up sometimes. But hey. Hes human! Presumably. I have already made some friends
. And thank you for your apology. Accepted, Mine offered where i have upset or offended too. I am glad in many ways, that I have joined this forum. Debate always makes me consider my own stand and question it, which is a good thing, for only in that way will I improve or rectify it if it is wrong. If I still believe a view I have is correct, despite questioning, then it will strengthen my own view, post reconsideration, which is also a good thing. Its a win win thing debate, as long as you dont make a tw+t of yourself along the way. And even then, its good if you learn from it. As hopefully I have.
So, thank you everyone. Denise x
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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09-12-2010, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Lotsadogs
I'm not willing to divuldge either, the person in question has already been through forum hell for their admission. Im not willing to start that up again for them.
I don't think saying what the behaviour was would give anything away-----there are a limited number of life threatening behaviours.
Also a limited number of obedience/HTM rs who give workshops. I can only think of one who fits the bill and that forum hell was unrelated to e collars!
rune
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Location: UK
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 709
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09-12-2010, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by rune
Someone who competes at HTM has been through forum hell??? It is a very small world and I find that hard to believe.
I don't think saying what the behaviour was would give anything away-----there are a limited number of life threatening behaviours.
rune
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Location: Tayside
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 680
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10-12-2010, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
Mini gave a very good bit of info re. the David Ryan article on shock collars, and that is one argument as good as you will get anywhere.
Ryan lives in Cumbria and works with dogs who chase. Successfully
He has worked with dogs with a strong predatory chase drive including (wait for it) a Malamute. (I recall it as a Malamute, or it have been a sibe, but I recall it being the former). Dogs who are so driven that they try to break out of the houses to go and chase something.He does not use shock collars, and neither does Angela Stockdale, who uses different methods to Ryan but still does not approve of them.
I don't see there is any reason for using them - certainly not for everyday training nor advanced training.
Behaviour problems? No, not for those either.
At the end of the day, you can use the collar on very low levels but why would one want to? Dogs can also be either sensitised or desensitised to a shock collar.
Me and my car door - yowee it hurts, and it hurts more each time until I will do anything to avoid it -yet it's not a very high level of "shock".
You can drip water - drip, drip, drip - in itself it's not harmful or painful, but keep doing it and it's torture, literally!
If you have an older dog who does not pay attention, do you feel you have enough knowledge to train him so that he does? IF for example it's when sniffing a hedge, that is one thing, and if it's when sighting another dog, that may be due to entirely different reasons
If the problem is due to the dog being a bit kind of, strong minded, then you can go over to the dog and "insist" he comes to you or whatever, but you do have to check your own traing methods, ensure you are totally consistent etc. Unlike somene I know who called her dog, then put he rhead down - the dog looked at her, ready to recall, but saw her head was down and did not go back. Dog got told off even though it was his owner's fault. We always have to check ourselves
To be honest, unless Rocky is being a danger I'd see it as part of his character and not be frustrated by it, it depends on situation etc.
Wys
x
PS excuse spelling, my hands are very cold!!
It's not about whether or not I should personally use an e-collar, but whether or not their use can be justified - I don't think there's an argument over whether or not they can effective - but is their use justified.
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
I don't see there is any reason for using them
Now while I accept that, lean towards it a little maybe, I'm not convinced beyond all doubt - as she also says, "did you ever wave your hand in front of someones face when they were focused on something else?" And so if it is possible to gain someones attention by waving a hand in front of their face, then it might be possible to gain a dogs attention with a small enough electric shock that it need not be painful.
But since Locky has come up in this
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
do you feel you have enough knowledge to train him so that he does?
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
........unless Rocky is being........
It's Locky with an L not an R.
I do not have, nor have I ever had, or do I see myself ever having a dog called Rocky, Rambo or Sly. Arnie or Tyson or anything similar. My dog is not an ego extension !
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