Thanks. I'll be in touch after Christmas

I am not syaing you have to keep her away from other dogs, not at all, what I am saying is you do have to ensure she isn't allowed to play if she gets herself all hyped up and excited. Tango now greets other dogs when out (we totally stopped her from doing it for a while) but only if she is calm and only if she stays calm during the greeting,if she gets too excited I say 'nicely' and move her back, she is then able to approach again if she settles. That's a huge move forward for her (as in the past she would charge the dog, floor it and stand growling over it...she did not want to hurt it she just gets exceptionally excited/stressed and to compound that can't cope with dogs running (thanks to having a shock collar used on her).she now has dog friends when we go out, which is lovely for her and for them...but I don't ever allow her to pull me to them or get really hyped before she sees them as I need to be in control of the meeting, not her.Yes, I kept her away from other dogs (except Cosmo) for a while, but I had to do that to deepen the bond we have.


No one is saying not to let her play/walk with other dogs ever...just you need to be more in control of the meetings and you mustn't let her meet them and go offlead when she is so hyped about it she is shaking.
Not wishing to ambush Talassie's thread..but I have a longline for Tango (and one for Cosmo when we are in rabbitsville). I have just started using the longline with her occassionally when we are in the park, prior to that she was on her 7/8 foot normal lead and harness and walks beautifully on it most of the time...until she sees another dog. She doesn't then lunge...she leaps into the air (with all 4 feet off the ground in one go) and does a 360degree spin mid air, lands, bounces a couple of times and spins again...all at the end of the lead. She does not then find it easy to focus at all. The worst was when she went into prowly hunt mode when she saw a Pug though.

I cannot let go of the longline. No way....if I did she would be off and fail immediately. If there are no dogs present (we walk her on quite an open 'field') then we let her off and keep watching out for other dogs. If there is a chance of another dog she has to be put back on.Other owners there, in the main, are fantastic as they have known us for many years and because of the work we did with the Guide Dog pups, if we have an onlead dog, they tend to stay away from us. I have also had the chance to explain to them when I see them when I kjust have muppet boy with me! She adores other dogs and generally wants to play with them. They are vERY high value as she has always been close to them in kennels, but never kennelled with them...then of course she wasn't allowed to chase them etc when working and we are pretty sure a shock collar was used on her to stop her doing that, so she is a girl of extremes...and extreme desire to play with other dogs but also an extreme desire to stop them running for fear of HER being punished. I also suspect she was force mated....so that brings other issues with it...She is happiest when lying on the floor licking other dogs and playing footsie with them. She will walk beautifully alongside another dog onlead if the other dog is also being calm. She adores Cosmo's sister as a result!!! (I had spent ages telling her owner beofre we met what a nightmare she was with other dogs balh blah blah...and there she was good as gold and totally in love with her...dogs huh?!!!!)

Anyway...she has come a long way (she says as she is chasing Cosmo and flooring him behind her chair,) we can now walk her past other dogs, or at least settle her if they walk past us, with much less fuss. If she hears a dog bark when out she immediately looks to us for a reward (in the past she went into leap and bark mode) and she will greet some dogs beautifully if given the chance. Her recall around the house and when offlead with no distractions is excellent but I know it wouldn't be with other dogs around if they get within her 'critical distance' or if they are moving...(especially if they are small...given she was also a working dog...). So...I use the longline to allow her more freedom and allow her to move further away from me but know I am still close and 'in charge' of meetings. She can still get totally hyped, so I have to be on the look out for other dogs all the time, which is fine, but I know I am much more relaxed about it these days as she is so much more chilled, bless her.We may never progress from that...I don't mind if we don't as she is well walked, well cared for and well loved bless her. We are trying though and I think our sessions in the arena early next year will really help...we are also pondering taking her to a friends training classes, we shall see....

In many ways though she does sound like Talassie's dog as she gets so hyped and can be so wonderful with other dogs. I just don't think being that hyped that they shake/don't listen, is a good head space for anyone/thing to be in, so work has to be done on calming them down and giving them coping mechanisms (like TTouch or play or treats scattered etc...)Allowing a VERY excited dog offlead is a recipe for disaster, for the dog, the dog it is approaching and any training that is being done. To allow a dog offlead when it is that hyped sets both you and the dog up to fail and if the dog gets like that around the wrong dog...a fight could easily break out.

Ramble, In that case then, you should just time you initial tug alot sooner or teach a really good instant down? ( a instant down wiould be quite good cos she could continue to watch what shes watching)

She only gets shaky if it is a dog she knows well and has played with a lot of times. Most times she will sit still. But her whole body language changes when she sees another dog. We were walking on lead past a field this morning and there was a dog half a field away just pottering and her body went into alert mode.

Despite her eagerness to play she will approach unknown dogs very carefully and may lie and wait for a minute or so before finally greeting. As I said she has got great social skills and can adjust her playing style to fit a tiny terrier or a big lab. With dogs that can be a bit aggressive she somehow manages the situation so that she can still run around while they are there. I have absolutely no worries about a fight. I had to be careful with my last shepherd because she was a dog who played rough and would bounce all over other dogs and that could cause arguments so I do know what you mean. But she was a very obedient dog so I could control the situation. If Tala wasn't the expert socialiser that she is she would NEVER get off lead.

I would have to tug before she saw the dog...which generally I do, thing is she knows if we recall her chances are there is another dog around (we do recall her when there isn't) but she now comes to us whilst scannign the horizon.....
An instant down would be marvellous. It has taken us 8 months to teach a sit, down and spin....she ain't quick....
I am sure she is good at socialising...but in all honesty if she met Tango and ran towards her Tango would floor her if she got close. If she just bounded up to be quite close to her, but not within flooring distance...that would actually be worse as it would hype Tango up totally. My concern for her isn't with her social skills, it is other dogs she may bound up to and not recall from. If she has also followed people towards park exits...I would also be concerned about that. (I have had this happen to me with a dog with Tango...and in all honesty I kept walking too...it was easier than standing and having them meet and greet...)

If it is a dog she knows well she gets shaky about she is anticpating the play...and relishing the thought...above all else, you are on a highway to failure if you let her off at that point as you are fuelling her excitement if you like. If you let her off when she is that hyped she will get a further adrenalin rush at being allowed to be free and each time it happens it will make the next time worse. It isn't a good place for her to be...she is stressed out.

Ultimately though, you have to decide what you want from her. IMO if you want a reliable recall around other dogs you need to stop letting her off when she is really hyped up.YOU need to be more important than the other dogs...

I think you misunderstand. I don't let her run up to any dog and never a dog on a lead.

But if your issue is with her recall, you can't be sure that she won't do it. You said she won't recall if she is playing and another dog approaches. If she doesn't have a good recall then you can't stop her going to an onlead dog and yes, in all honesty, given my experiences of that, that situation does piddle me off quite a lot. If you don't have a good recall you can't stop her going to an onlead dog...or following an onlead dog and owner out of the park...

Mind you one of Tango's best doggy friends is a Labradoodle with a poor recall who has bounded up to her on several occassions...he is however huge and bouncy and young so she likes him!!! Mind you in fairness to the owners, I don't think I have ever seen anyone run so fast the first time he came over to us...

I don't let her off lead in the park. I let her off lead on fields where other dogs play off lead. And she won't go off with another dog anymore because she already has a dog to play with. It would be unusual for anyone to walk a dog on lead in that area.
No there are no guarantees but I would say I feel a bit of a control freak compared to most of the other owners.

I'm a bit confused then. You said you have a problem with recall around other dogs but now it sounds like you don't have a problem with recall around other dogs.

In answer to the original question positive training can only work in that situation if the training is done before hand and the dog is never allowed to fail...so you need to not put her in that position until you are sure she can cope with it and respond to you.
Tango is the same...so she doesn't get offlead around other dogs. End of. Until I know she will come back, she doesn't get off...I can't risk it as it will knock the progress we have made so far back it would be unbelievable.
In all honesty and I don't want to be offensive, but I would be furious with you if I met you with her and she did that to Tango as it would knock my work with her back...if she is getting close enough to an onlead dog to bark at it to entice it to play...that is totally unfair on that dog. If this is with dogs you have mentioned she plays with on walks that are put onlead at the end of the walk, again, it's unfair on them and on her really. She will continue to fail if you put her in situations like that. You have to set her up to succeed everytime.

If she chased Cosmo when he was out he would be beside himself...he hates it. He would either run to me and hide or try to growl her off. Again ...not fair. On her or him. Or on you...I would give you a mouthful if your dog did that to him as he was attacked by a dog that did that (which then proceeded to bite it's owner) and it took months to rebuild his confidence.

In all honesty..I am totally confused by your posts. I am guessing your dog will not come back at all when playing and will run off after other dogs in that scenario...you just can't put her in that situation anymore until you know she will come back. I am not saying not to let her play ever...but perhaps you need to hold onto the longline so she can't fail. Everytime she ignores your recall you can add at least a month to your training programme with her.

I also stand by my previous comments about this being a dangerous situation...she is hyped up and ignoring you and chasing other dogs.

I will leave it at that for this thread because I think we are either misunderstanding each other, or you are considering other training methods for her, which may not be quite a 'positive' (that was how I read your OP at least...again I could be misunderstanding you though and apologies if thats' the case). This sort of a problem takes a VERY long time to sort out...I am expecting it to take up to 2 years with Tango...IF I can ever sort it. Mind you...all of this has been created by the less than positive training methods she has had to endure for her first 5 years bless her.

Good luck with her she sounds adorable but cheeky!