Positive training and recall

There seem to be a lot of people who are good at positive training so perhaps someone can help me with my recall.

We have progressed a little and most times I can get my dog to come to me before releasing her to play. The playing with other dogs is her reward. However, when she is playing with other dogs she doesn't want to come back for ANY other reward - food, toys etc. How in that instance can positive training work when the reward of playing with other dogs is far far greater than anything I can offer. I have her on a harness with a line attached and in this way I can get hold of her but to my mind this is just managing the situation not training.

I took her out at 5am for weeks and weeks in the summer to work on playing with toys before other dogs were about. She is just not interested in balls or retrieving. She will play with a tuggie at times but I cannot generate huge enthusiasm. Certainly not enough to compete with another dog. I have tried running and hiding but she is oblivious to where I am when playing so it doesn't work.

I have had two dogs who I have trained and who had no problem with the recall but they were never obsessed with other dogs like this one. And yes she does get the chance to play with dogs but it doesn't help. Sometimes it seems to make her keener.

Apart from getting another dog I cannot see what else I can do. Even positive trainers I have seen have said it is a very difficult problem and hard to work with.

Any gems of information you can give me?

Does she have good Name response? (have you watched my little utube bit on name response/training name response?)

Also how often are you calling her away? Too often? & shes ignoring?

Does she have a instant down?

to add how high a reward have you gone? Anything uber high value?

Eg show her the steak, let her have a little lick, send her off????? DONT call her back, just go mad with praise if she LOOKS at you, if she Decides to come back WITHOUT u telling her Go NUTS with Praise & get the steak out

I seen a really nice video once where the dog was playing with all really well trained dogs and when she was called back all the other dogs were told to down so they became v boring for the other dog - you would have to set that one up tho
Do the other dogs not come over sometimes?? With Mia EVERYTHING was more exciting than me so I just as soon as she was close enough to chuck a treat I did - then told her to go play
repeate until her getting close happens more often and she is expecting the treat then have her come a little closer before treating and sending away again
Eventualy she would start running up to me for a treat - I would sometimes ask for a sit or a down, treat and send away to play again
also if she ever comes running towards me (even if I need to have the other dog in a down at my feet to encourage her to run at me) I would call her then and reward lots with fun running around games

and dont bother calling her when she is not going to come back - if you know she is going to ignore you when playing then dont waste the recal signal

It takes time - but the fact she comes to you to get released to play is good for making the recal seem good in her mind - how about recal, treat, step away, recal again then unleash to play

My command is her name followed by Come and if there are no dogs around she will come. If there are dogs in the distance she will come most times and will sit and wait to be released (or not as the case may be). If there is a dog walking she will most likely come back fairly easily. But if there is a dog running she is totally deaf!

So the answer is No. We have worked on this in the training class and in the training class she is brilliant and will work for treats around other dogs. Unfortunately all training classes are inside halls. I have had 1-1 lessons outside and we have had some success when playing with another reasonably controlled dog. But it doesn't transfer to other situations and her brains disappear and her legs take over and nothing else has any value to her apart from running and running. And I just do not understand why she doesn't want to run after a ball

How old is she? Dale was like that until he reached two and then other dogs didn't seem to be nearly so exciting.
Have you tried calling him and the other dog, with owner's permission, giving them both a treat and then telling him to go away and play again?
I tried not to call unless I thought he would come. Often I called when he heading towards me anyway and then I could praise him for being so clever
Another thing I tried was changing the way I called him, from come to a high pitched continuous come come come come until he came up to me. I'm not sure why but it seemed to help. Maybe it sounded more exciting.
Also I found a firm down as soon as I saw him heading towards other dogs or anything else I didn't want him to chase worked well. He seemed to find it easier to stay still in a down until I walked up to him than to run back to me. Once he started running it was much harder to get him to listen.
TBH I think old age really sorted it out. Good luck. I'm sure if you'll get there in the end.

We have a problem along similar lines - ours aren't obsessed with other dogs but they do have some increadibly strong instincts that can make them hard to control off-lead.

Like you, we've worked with various experts on a one-to-one basis and been told the same thing. It's a tricky problem that you might never solve.

Our problem wasn't so much recall, but more a tendency for the dogs to just go into a world of their own and run off out of sight. It's not uncommon amongst the breed for these little 'Beagling' sessions to last hours or even days. The instinct to do this is VERY strong.

The best trainer that we worked with gave us lots of little drills and exercises that really did help a lot. But the key thing was NEVER to let the dog get into a situation where you don't have complete control. If your dog's thing is other dogs then your dog doesn't get off-lead around other dogs until you are certain that you can recall him away from them. She has a Parson's Terrier with a passion for rabbits. She has the dog to a very high level in agility but she admits that she still always clips his lead on when they go past long grass as he simply can't resist looking for rabbits. But she explained that every time you let your dog do it's thing (in your case playing with other dogs) you are reinforcing in the dog's mind that other dogs are more interesting than you and you're making recall harder to achieve.

One of the other trainers advised just living with the problem. She claimed you'd be unlikely to change the dog so just manage the situation as best you can.

I guess a lot depends upon whether you're willing to deprive the dog of the thing he loves until your training is powerful enough to override a deep seated instinct - perhaps for ever and at least for months or years.

On the other hand if it's just because he's young and exciteable and not so much down to a powerful instinct or drive then he might just grow out of it.

Best of luck. I know how hard it is - you want them to be safe but you also want them to live life to the full.

I've just spotted that you have German Shepherds? I understand that this breed often gets very upset about being spearated from their owner?

If this is the case with yours then what would happen if you called her once and then walked away - out of sight. That might teach her/him that there are serious consequences to not doing as you're told first time?

Here is a link to a vid i did so show name Response, the idea is to get the dog to make eye contact on its name, obviously you do it, in the house, in the garden building up to in a empty park, to park with dogs in the distance etc

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t=IMGP0690.flv

Its with nellie so its not very good, just got sick of explaining it

It shouldnt be too hard to turn this dog around, just got to find the key! & turn it the right way.