Yep, thats what I'm saying here too, so there isnt a 'dinner time' to hold out for! and he is hungry enough...and I think if memory serves that SB recomended that too?

Does Dex know 'the clicker'?

Perhaps clicker training would be good for him too?

So you can keep him on his line and ask for recall and click/reward, click/reward for him even looking at you without prompting while other dogs are around...and he has to come for the reward?

Think it's been said already, but I'd be practising the food thing in situations where he's going to come back to start with. Lots. Make a fun thing of it - take dinner with you every walk. If you've got a situation where he's likely/ there's a good chance he'll ignore you, I wouldn't recall unless you can reel him in if he does - in which case bad luck Dex missed a bit of dinner/ play etc - but he still has to return to you.

But that's just me & my ignorance knows no bounds.

I agree but would go and get him instead of reeling him in and if he dosnt come back more than once that day - TOUGH! he'll be a hungry boy the next day and come back and the more he repeats that the more he learns that the best option is to listen to you! It may sound harsh but seems like that is the way he is going to learn tbh but do think the clicker may be a good thing.

Its going to give him more freedom and safety in the long run. Unless there is a medical reason you cant do that then thats what I think you may want to try (and I have already suggested in tandem with...)

I don't think I know about this?

The trouble is when he sees other dogs it's like he goes into an altered state, he literally seems not to hear me.

But by all means please tell me about the key words, I really appreciate any help - thank you

Yes, I think you're right, that is what SMOKEY BEAR originally said I think.

I will from today start taking the entire day's ration to the park and if he doesn't recall, he doesn't eat - it has to be this way as nothing else has worked.

RE CLICKER - that is worth considering too, yes, thank you.

It's just frustrating as at home, or at friend's houses/gardens, his recall is SO superb. I call and he comes racing!!

I just need to get that same response outside the home/garden etc.

It just takes more time thats all. You'll get there if you stick in!

If you are going to think about clicker then Clicker Training for Dogs by Karen Pryor is a good one to start off with

I train in (aswell as my 4 stage recal training) some realluy exciting key words, such as "ready steady" being my fave. I train these in with play /food/games at hme to make these the best words ever.
When he does recall you can use these JUST before you reward him, Sometimes , y'know if hes just standing there in a trance? Its pointless saying his name, so i will wait, watch his ears/breathing etc etc, wait for the slightest change in body language , normally a ear movement, say your Key word "ready" ..... if he looks praise/name/look/praise/come/praise/movement/praise/keyword /reward.

If he dosent twitch on his keyword thenm you know theres no point in trying his name.

Its hard to explain, you will need to come to cardiff for a lesson!

Well, I've heard it all now........ so you starve a dog to gain a good recall, or you take the meal down the park??? Hmmmmm

For a start, Dexter just thinks you forgot to feed him breakfast - fact! If you starved him for 3 days or more that will not improve his recall - fact! In fact it's the most utter bolony I think I've ever heard in my entire life!

Why don't you practice recall either on your own, then progress to doing it around distractions, or go to a proper training class where you will be taught how to recall your dog away from other dogs/distractions in the correct manner which will not include the starvation theory - simples! If you have some high value treats like chicken or cheese the dog won't fail to know that you have those in your pocket if he keeps getting a piece from the end of a long-line IF and when he returns to you on calling - sorted!

Blooming 'eck I've been around the block a good while now and I've never heard of this starving method - EVER! Maybe all the proper trainers got it wrong then

no not actually starving him!! You dont not feed him at all for days then take the food. If you check Tabithas threads you'll see the background. (its basically split his food into bags and then take it with you so he gets it when he comes back to her in the park, so the food is on offer, so he gets a chance to learn that coming back is a reward)

I also think that I would work on getting him learning how to play and having a 'special' toy so once he has had a chance to learn his recall in distractions through food he has other rewards and clicker etc so that the owner can become the best thing to him, the source of food, fun, praise....which means that he is safer and has more freedom.

Getting a dog that dosnt play onto a toy takes a while though and in the mean time Dex has managed to lunge at horses, dogs, run off and pull the line from his owner....so if earning his food helps make his world safer to the point where he isnt going to be knocked down by a car, kicked by a horse, mauled by a dog that dosnt appreciate being approached and an owner not being pulled over etc etc then I dont think its so bad as FOOD IS ON OFFER but as I said, I think clicker etc might be helpful too so he knows that coming when the dogs are there is why hes getting food too but thats just my opinion....

Tabitha, if its any help one of the things I did with my dog that helped a lot was to use a training lead and have it out at the 6ft and do some loose leash walking but after allowing him to go ahead, I'd say his name and when he looked, click/reward and let him come to me for his rewards...eventually adding in the word for recall when coming back all the time...started with dogs in the distance and then closer and closer etc BUT I didnt go and stand in the park somewhere I just took advantage of dogs approaching etc when I seen them (so it could be in the street, could be in the park, the woods...) and I feel that helped a lot.