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Adam P
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18-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Quick point about the documentary were they comp[ared wolf puppies to dog puppies.

1, they didn't raise them excatly the same, they were far softer with the wolf pups than the dogs, this is why the wolfs walked all over them.

2, the dog pups looked like some sort of herding breed mix, if the dog pups had been chows or anything with a more ''screw you attitude'' to humans they would have got different results.

The experiment was repeated at some point with better research methods and the wolfs came out as good as the dogs.

Adam
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k9paw
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18-02-2011, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Of course - just like there is the Neanderthal buried deep in all of us. Some of us more than others,!!
Yes indeed, so it would seem.
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Gnasher
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18-02-2011, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by k9paw View Post
Yes indeed, so it would seem.
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Mahooli
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19-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Indeed, but genetically they are the same.

Just as you and I and Neanderthals share the same genes, or you and I and a Maori, or an Aborigine, or an Amazon rain forest indian, or a Kalahari Bushman. We look very different, we act different, we do everything different in every way ... but we are EXACTLY the same from a genetic point of view.

This is what counts, NOT outward appearance, not behaviour, not lifestyle ... GENES.
Incorrect Neanderthals and modern man's ancestors lived at the same time, shared a common ancestor but we are not their descendants, they died out where our ancestors adapted enough to survive!!
Becky
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3dognight
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19-02-2011, 02:08 PM
a k9 is a k9........simple dna...
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Crysania
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19-02-2011, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
No, absolutely incorrect. Wolves and dogs do not share a COMMON ancestor, they share the same ancestor - dogs are direct descendents of wolves, same DNA, one is wild, one is tame. Man over the millenia have of course moulded the wolf and changed him almost unrecognisably into the thousand plus pedigree breeds that we know and love today - but dog is still wolf in terms of genetic makeup, physiology and neurology.
My understanding is that wolves today are not the same as wolves back when there was the split between wolves and dogs, that they are both descended from one type of canine (probably a more wolf-like canine, but not exactly the modern wolf) and therefore are related but not the same animal exactly.

There are distinct physical differences between wolves and dogs, mostly centering on the size and shape of the skull. Dogs, even more wolfish looking dogs, all have shorter snouts for one. Teeth are smaller. Wolves mature differently. I believe they are not adults and able to mate until they're two years old and females only go through heat cycles once a year (whereas dogs often go into heat at 6-8 months and have two cycles a year).

There are also distinct differences in social lives. Dogs do not form "packs" (family groups, really). The social structure among feral dogs has been shown to be much more loose. Dogs do not form strong family units like wolves do (wolves are very much like humans in that way!).

And there are also distinct differences in behavior. Wolves mature, while dogs retain more of their puppy personalities.

They may share a lot of their DNA but they don't share it all. I don't believe for a moment that dogs ARE wolves. Dogs are dogs. They have been for thousands of years. And treating them like wolves does them a disservice, I think.
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dogdragoness
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19-02-2011, 02:24 PM
Ok question... that is under the assumption that all dogs decended from the 'common' grey wolf. But didn't dogs from other regions decend from species of now excinct wolves? Also let's not forget dogs like the ACD who decended from not a wolf at all, but the dingo.

I believe that dogs do think of themselves as dominant & submissive in some way, but not as rigidly as wolves do.
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Tupacs2legs
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19-02-2011, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania View Post
My understanding is that wolves today are not the same as wolves back when there was the split between wolves and dogs, that they are both descended from one type of canine (probably a more wolf-like canine, but not exactly the modern wolf) and therefore are related but not the same animal exactly.

There are distinct physical differences between wolves and dogs, mostly centering on the size and shape of the skull. Dogs, even more wolfish looking dogs, all have shorter snouts for one. Teeth are smaller. Wolves mature differently. I believe they are not adults and able to mate until they're two years old and females only go through heat cycles once a year (whereas dogs often go into heat at 6-8 months and have two cycles a year).

There are also distinct differences in social lives. Dogs do not form "packs" (family groups, really). The social structure among feral dogs has been shown to be much more loose. Dogs do not form strong family units like wolves do (wolves are very much like humans in that way!).

And there are also distinct differences in behavior. Wolves mature, while dogs retain more of their puppy personalities.

They may share a lot of their DNA but they don't share it all. I don't believe for a moment that dogs ARE wolves. Dogs are dogs. They have been for thousands of years. And treating them like wolves does them a disservice, I think.
its not the 'snout' its a less defined 'stop'
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Dawes Paws
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19-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
Ok question... that is under the assumption that all dogs decended from the 'common' grey wolf. But didn't dogs from other regions decend from species of now excinct wolves? Also let's not forget dogs like the ACD who decended from not a wolf at all, but the dingo.

I believe that dogs do think of themselves as dominant & submissive in some way, but not as rigidly as wolves do.
i may be wrong but i BELEIVE that is myth, just as the kelpie origins lying in Dingos, both myths
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k9paw
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19-02-2011, 02:28 PM
Bit off topic perhaps but will say one thing, wolves smell different to dogs ,big time.
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