Nope....sorry. Possibly because I was taught by an environmentalist as collage, although she was not as hardcore as some of them!!

Despite the relatively recent divergence time between domestic dogs (Canis familiaris) and gray wolves (Canis lupus), the two species show remarkable behavioral differences. Since dogs and wolves are nearly identical at the level of DNA sequence, we hypothesize that the two species may differ in patterns of gene expression.

We compare gene expression patterns in dogs, wolves and a close relative, the coyote (Canis latrans), in three parts of the brain: hypothalamus, amygdala and frontal cortex, with microarray technology. Additionally, we identify genes with region-specific expression patterns in all three species. Among the wild canids, the hypothalamus has a highly conserved expression profile. This contrasts with a marked divergence in domestic dogs. Real-time PCR experiments confirm the altered expression of two neuropeptides, CALCB and NPY. Our results suggest that strong selection on dogs for behavior during domestication may have resulted in modifications of mRNA expression patterns in a few hypothalamic genes with multiple functions. This study indicates that rapid changes in brain gene expression may not be exclusive to the development of human brains. Instead, they may provide a common mechanism for rapid adaptive changes during speciation, particularly in cases that present strong selective pressures on behavioral characters.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3&searchtype=a

No, not in terms of evolution, that is nowhere long enough for a separate, or even subspecies, to be formed. Now that it has been proved that Neanderthal man and Homo Sapiens are exactly the same species, not a sub species as previously thought, it has convinced me even more that dogs are indeed domesticated wolves.

If you compare yourself to an Aboriginal woman living in the Bush in Oz, there would appear to be no comparison. You look different, behave differently, have completely different way of life, different diet, different everything. The Aborigine woman's "6th sense" would be far, far cuter than your's, of course. And yet you are exactly the same species.

So it is with a wild timber wolf living in Alaska, and my daughter's chihuahua. They speak differently, they live differently, neither would survive 2 minutes in each other's environment, and yet they are the same species.

"Environment" as you call it, is just merely the icing on the cake. The thin veneer of civilisation - everything about us is genetic. We are what we are because of our parents, and their parents, and their parents, going back in time. Education, social skills, all these are learned and very important they are too of course. They are what makes us "civilised" modern human beings. But our GENES are what we are, our driving force, the engine room. The education, social skills, the things that we learn to make us the civilised, sociable people that we are is the "rudder" - the engine room where the power comes from is our genes.

There have been studies done on identical twins who were separated for whatever reason either at birth, or very early on in their lives. Decades later, these twins discovered that despite the fact they had gone very separate ways, been raised in totally different environments by totally different types of people, they had ended up doing very similar courses at university or college, and gone into very similar types of jobs, pursued similar sports or pastimes, and really were "identical" twins - despite being brought up in radically different ways and environments.

Genes are everything - nurture merely the icing on the cake.

Canis familiaris does not exist any more - the dog has been reclassified as Canis Lupus familiaris - the familiaris just to distinguish between wild wolf and tame wolf

I'm now going to follow up on your very interesting link, thanx for that!

O knickers! I have got to pay for it - not keen on doing that! I will see if OH can get it for free for me, it does look a very interesting paper although I am struggling to understand the abstract

Will get my book back this wknd and quote if no one else has it

LOVING this thread by the way

The Coppingers studied several different types of dogs that exist today,including sled dogs, village dogs,retrievers, livestock protectors etc very closely. They came to to the point that today's dogs didn't evolve directly from wolves or through early man's domestication of wolves. They domesticated themselves, by finding early man a food source , by using the village dumps, that all villages had.

The differences in dogs today, were shaped by the environments that these early dogs survived in. To see our dogs early ancestors, we would do better to look towards wild dogs of today, rather than wolves.

yes from what i remeber they said that there was one wolf species, NOT the wolf we know today, which is now extinct, so these wolves were minding their own business and along comes man, some wolves decided to stick near the "villages" and scavenge for food from the outskirts etc... while other wolves preferred not to be anywhere near man and became more elusive. so it is from the original extinct wolf that the two species of canine evolved, one the wolf we know today, the elusive one and the other, the scavengers became the domestic dog.

obv that isnt a qoute but pretty sure that was the gist of it

That's what I more or less remember, reading it, and thinking this all makes sense You've made me want to reread it now, so thank you, for mentioning it x