i agree you should always praise the dog when it does something you want, but again what about when it does do something wrong?

no one is answering so not sure if anyone actually knows???? but i tell him off, he listens and then we carry on like normal. he needs boundries, to know what he is doing good and to be praised when he is good but also told off when doing something wrong. imo!!!

Such vast experience & knowledge from someone who has owned a dog for less than a year, I wish I had such indepth knowledge after I had had my first dog for less than a year.

Why don't my dogs shred bin bags etc-because they are left out for them to get access to. If they do chew/destroy anything it's my fault for leaving it where they can get to it QED

Why don't my dogs/puppies bite ? because the only get rewarded when they don't & I don't hit them when they behave naturally for a puppy, but as the adult dogs do ignore & only give attention when they stop.Can you explain how hitting a dog on the nose teaches it not to bite ? It clearly doesn't work for your friends dog, if it did the dog wouldn't bite anyone. It has found that doing so to the man is painful so doesn't do it & that isn't through education, but fear(perhaps not apparent to such an experienced dog owner as yourself)of pain.

I think training for good behaviours can stop the bad ones!
For example-when we got Cherry and Parker they used to go nutty barking at next door's 3 cats through the fence. They were clicker recall trained so when they started barking at the cats I recalled them, clciked and treated, and shut the patio doors so they couldn't go out again in the garden for a while. If they hadn't have come when called I would have had long lines on them to assist bringing them back in.

They soon learnt that if they wanted to stay in the garden excited barking was a bad idea. Now they lie near the fence and watch the moggies without barking which keeps me and my neighbours happy!

We used to go to a training class where they used check-chains and physical manouvering of the dogs to get them to do what they wanted. Clickers and treats were not encouraged yet my dogs were so motivated to please and they love learning new things. I have friends who are ADPT trainers and behaviourists and they always encouraged me by saying how motivated Cherry and Parker were.

The ONE thing I have learnt from Cesar Milan is not to let Cherry make eye contact with other dogs she doesn't know. This really helped me get her more sociable and relaxed with other dogs. After hearing this I got her to accept an Airedale that I couldn't get less than about 40 feet away without her kicking off! She will now happily greet this dog normally.

but for us living in a very small house with the tiniest garden ever on a walkway we have no choice but to leave things like bin bags in the back garden as the bin men only come every two weeks and we cant have a wheeley bin!!! i cant keep him cooped up in the kitchen all the time ( he does have at least one hour walk per day with little one inbetween). thats the only thing he has chewed unless we have accidently left shoes out which is entirly our fault, which he isnt told of for. but things like the bin bags we have to or else there will be rubbish everywere.

i would rather him be told of once or twice than have to stay in the kitchen all the time tbh!!!

wow got in late and just caught up, lots of debates, i would love to take something positive from this tread there has been a lot of negative things said but not much in the way of positive alternatives given, so im going to open another thread about a hypothetical situation, i would be genuinely open and interested to hear from all who have spoke on this thread, i would like keep the thread positive so all of this wasnt for nothing.if you dont want to help or share your knowledge with me or arnt interested in anything else i have to say thats fine too.

oh and im not an experienced dog owner but i do have my own opinions and am allowed to say them. how else am i going to learn about thers views and what im doing right or wrong.

i am genuinly interested at the moment, forget about the CM stuff fir a sec and actually help me learn to stop him doing things rather than keep telling me you think im being cruel (i dont think i am)

thanks

I don't dislike Milan, but I don't use alot of his methods, not because I disagree with them but because they don't work for me.

Some general observations.

All training will involve a degree of stress, even positive training creates stress due to food drive/prey drive.

I don't perosnnaly see the diff between using a prong/slip lead to stop pulling and a halti, its just that people think haltis are alot nicer. Both use discomfort to reduce the pulling, if the halti works better than the slip lead thats becuase it causes more discomfort.

Clicker is great but in practical terms you have to start somewhere and if the dog won't offer clickable behaviour you have to cause it to.
Of course for a dog with low food/toy drive in a scenario its limited.

You can teach behaviours without rewards, cesar does it with a slip lead and physical corrections. I do it with a prong collar or e collar. Both ways the dog learns to do the desired behaviour, often a lot quicker than a purely reward based approach.

Most dog owners have problems with dogs doing the wrong thing, teaching them how to make the dog do the right thing is very good, but ultimatly you have to elminate the wrong behaviour.

Adam

There are plenty of ways to stop a dog doing something you don't want without resorting to physical or even verbal punishment. Rupert learned very quickly that racing around the house when I picked up his leash resulted in the leash going back on the hook and me sitting down with a book until he stopped. He learned to chew his toys and not the furniture because I constantly directed him to his toys and rewarded him for chewing on them. He learned that if he launched himself at me or used his teeth on me that I would leave the room and he'd be all alone for about 30 seconds which was the exact opposite of what he wanted. No raised voices or physical contact necessary.

Teaching an incompatible behaviour can very often eliminate the behaviour you don't want. Don't want the dog jumping up to greet you? Teach it to sit to greet. Don't want the dog to rush to the door when someone rings the bell? Teach it to go to a certain spot when the doorbell rings. I taught Rupert that he had to hold a toy in his mouth to wrestle with me because he will get excited and bite hard if he's not holding something.

I used to train using similar methods to CM but after getting Rupert who simply could NOT be trained using those methods because he'd just shut down and be incapable of doing anything I had to find another way. I wouldn't go back to using those methods now. Positive training is easier on me and the dog.

All behaviour modification will involve a degree of aversive for the dog, putting the lead away when the dog goes hyper is negative punishment and considering the value dogs place on walks probably highly unpleasent, thats why it works.

Adam

In what situation would a dog not offer clickable behaviour? I've yet to be put in that position with Rupert. In the click to calm book the author mentions clicking when her dog stops barking and snarling in order to draw a breath and building on that.