I do know what Rips is getting at - but also agree with Johan in that generally working tests for show dogs are not a true test of working ability at all. It is the same with the herding test for show border collies

I have no idea what can happen to bring the UK's show/working dogs closer together in looks, temperament and working ability - but feel that there will probably always be a split in most breeds.

Moved this post to a thread of its own

one of the main concerns with gsd is that the breed standard for show quality dogs is a body that is far too long and short back legs

this doesnt cause hip displasia but it does not help and puts an unnecessary amount of stress on the joints, hence it being such a prevalent problem within the breed

:smt017 :smt017 :smt017 :smt017 :smt102 hi all great thread but old dollyk has a question when ppl say they have an alsation or a gsd what is difference maybe im thick ,.
but a few years back (ages an ages an ages ago )my older sis owned two one long haired and one short haired tip an sandy.
now the guy next door but one owned two male long haired cald seargeant and a male long haired cald colonel . he said where alsations now this guy breed them in the past but no longer owned female just studded his boys out . and he always said my sisters were german shepards though tip was long coated and sandy short coated .
my point is i always thoiught gsd had lovely long coats and ali had short (as previously stated in other posts im not very clued up on the breed just that i like them a lot and there my second fav breed so could someone please educate old dollyk .
or maybe this guy thought he had a better breed or something

as far as im aware they were called alsations because of the war

people didnt want their dog associated with the germans

man that was fast typing (for me anyway)

Pesonally I do not think proportions of 10 to 9 are asking fortoo long a body & that is what the KC standard calls for, the length of back leg is not the criteria its turn of stifle. I know this is often given as the reason why GSDs have HD problems but if rhis was the case then the chow would not have a worse problem than the GSD.
& yes GSDs were called alsatians as in 1918 nothing was wanted with the word German in it & Alsace which was one of the areas where thet were from fought with France on the allies side during the war, Till 1973 The KC called them Alsatians (GSD) then they changed it to German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) so they had the same name here as in every other country in the world, but it takes the general public a long time to change.

I can't believe how many people still ask me whether Flame is a German Shepherd or an Alsatian

THANX GASWEBBER , WOW THIS IS A FASCINATING THREAD IM LEARNING LOADS THANX EVERYONE

Why should they? The majority of working ESS owners want a dog they can take on the beating line, or take shooting. They aren't bothered about looks. As long as they can do the job and spend all day doing that job, they are happy. They don't need that dog to conform to the breed standard as it means nothing to them. I used to think that the breed standard meant that they could do the job they were bred to do but they can anyway, without the breed standard.

Being the hypocrite that I am, I do like the fact that the gwp is truly dual purpose, because I enjoy showing. I have Teal to enjoy showing and working and my spaniels to enjoy working. Having Teal means that I can take part in two different activities but if I had to choose which one I did, it would be working every time.

Even my working pointers look different to their show counterparts, but I know they can work very well and keep going so I'm not bothered what they look like.

Helen

I think that's such a shame! What's the point of owning a certain breed if you don't care what it looks like? If there was no breed standard the dog wouldn't physically exist in the first place, so why ignore it? TBH I'm starting to find it harder and harder to tell the difference between the working Springers and Cockers these days - the Cockers are getting ever bigger and the Springers ever smaller. They might as well swap breeds!

Now I love Springers because of their personality and their desire to work, but I also want a dog that LOOKS like the breed it is! Which is why I travelled so far to get Isla and she's fitting the bill quite nicely! Anyone who is passionate about a breed should care about it's origins which should include functionality as well as looks IMO. And that's aimed at the majority of Show breeders too.