I think that is a very good point, and what do we *really* know about the working of a dog's mind? Are our findings all guesswork and how we, as humans, think a dog should be thinking or behaving? After all, how do we know *for sure* that a dog doesn't remember, or reminisce, or ponder things?

I think they do al those things Moobli, to be honest, but i think their 'thoughts' are triggered and 'thought' by smells...

I think, in general terms, you are probably right Ailsa. However, I don't think this would be the case for every dog. As LS said - what about dogs like Greyfriars Bobby? Also certain breeds are more likely to bond to one person and may not ever respect another person as their true owner. German Shepherds are renowned for bonding very closely with their owner.

I know of a police dog handler who gave a handler friend of his one of his working dogs and even though the dog would work for the new handler and take his instructions, whenever the original owner was around the dog always looked to him and almost forgot the new owner/handler.

On the other hand, I gave a home to a GSD at 16 months old and prior to myself, she had been passed from pillar to post since she was a pup. She bonded very quickly and very strongly to me. So perhaps it all depends on what kind of a relationship the dog had with their first owner.

Very interesting topic in any case

It is isn't it??? One that's close to my heart too as I do worry about my 'babies' when they leave us.
I agree with your GSD post...our second pup was half GSD and we were all very worried about how he'd react when he left us as he was VERY close to us all and made it clear when we were out that he was...did he settle quickly...did he care when he left...tot everyones surprise...errr...no...little (well huge) so and so!!!!!!
As for Greyfriars Bobby..
IMO....his master died...he went to the grave and looked pitiful...someone fed him...
He wandered aways from the grave when he got hungry or thirsty again...he was attacked by soemthing or scared by something...so he went back to the safety of the cemetry...seomone saw him...said 'awwww' and fed him...
In that way the grave was reinforced as a good place to be and away from the grave a 'bad' place...he was being fed and watered in the good place so why leave to go to the bad place....#Just my opinion and version of what may have happened...love it as a story though....

When I first rescued Georgie, the woman who used to walk him and sometimes accommodate him if the owner was in hospital, she sometimes popped in to see him (probably checking up on me!!), and at first, everytime he saw her, he would give her an o.t.t. greeting and stay with her whilst she gave him a lot of fuss, and he did seem quite upset after she had left. I thought to myself then, that maybe it would be better for the dog if she didn't make such frequent trips here, after all, I wanted him to forget his past life didn't I! Anyway, she left it for about six months then, and when she came to visit us, although he gave her a great greeting, he soon sloped off and ignored her and stayed by my side! This told me that he was telling her "it's nice to see you again, but I've really settled down here now, and I like it, so you're not going to take me away, even though I was great friends with all your four dogs when I stayed with you!" That's my opinion anyway!

Going back to the dog knowing or not knowing whether you will come back, something I've just thought about, everytime I go to work, I always say to them "mummy's going to work" now those 4 words give them an immediate secure feeling that I WILL be coming back in a short while (2 hrs.), whereas, if I don't actually say those words, they pester me at the back door and try to come out of the house with me, whether it's because they think they're going for another walk, or maybe it's because they think "she hasn't said those words, so IS she coming back?". I will never know I suppose!

[QUOTE=Helena54;783900]When I first rescued Georgie, the woman who used to walk him and sometimes accommodate him if the owner was in hospital, she sometimes popped in to see him (probably checking up on me!!), and at first, everytime he saw her, he would give her an o.t.t. greeting and stay with her whilst she gave him a lot of fuss, and he did seem quite upset after she had left. I thought to myself then, that maybe it would be better for the dog if she didn't make such frequent trips here, after all, I wanted him to forget his past life didn't I! Anyway, she left it for about six months then, and when she came to visit us, although he gave her a great greeting, he soon sloped off and ignored her and stayed by my side! This told me that he was telling her "it's nice to see you again, but I've really settled down here now, and I like it, so you're not going to take me away, even though I was great friends with all your four dogs when I stayed with you!" That's my opinion anyway!

QUOTE]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
That's exactly what I see in the pups Helena...takes a bit of time, during which it probably..no it IS better for the dogs not to see the 'originals'..the length of time varies with each dog and can be surprising as we found with Ems, but they DO bond totally with someone new, yet remember the their old 'owners' and a re'pleased' to see them!!!!
I adored seing our first pup with his owner when they visited , he was so chuffed to see us, but totally focused on his owner. Fantastic.
Interestingly (and perhaps a tad off topic) when we send 'parcels' to our first pup (with toys etc in...sad I know!) he 'knows' it's from us and sniffs away at it...even if it's just a letter he gets excited...other people say they've seen that too....bless. Nice to know he still loves us and is interested in us (especially as he may come and stay if he needs to one day) but that he is totally in love with his owner. Brill.
Thanks for that post Helena...makes me feel I'm not just seeing things or making stuff up in my own head to make me feel better about them oging..if you see what i mean...
Cheers mate!!!! :smt058

Just caught up with this thread...

3 points I've noted with Max...

1) Whoever gets home 2nd between me or OH gets more attention from Max. I think it's because the first person who comes home does very utilarian things first (check water, check food, clean up any mess, open the kennel etc) and then plays with him, whereas the 2nd person doesn't do any of that, and just plays with Max first, so Max is more excited by the 2nd person coming home.

2) Like Bongo, Max can never decide where to be if me and OH are in different rooms. Even if we are only feet apart (but in kitchen and dining room for example) he will keep checking both of us and won't stay still.

3) Max is always waiting by the gate for us to come home from work (as we get home between 5 and 6 every night), but if we finish early/work half days etc, we often wake him up as it's not part of his "routine"

V. interesting thread

Thanks Ailsa, glad I made you feel less errr soppy now then!!! I might add, this particular person hasn't been here for about a year now!!! Wonder why???

That's a shame Helena...should be pleased that he's settled and happy.
Just in the process of arranging to see our first pup with his owner on the day we visit our second pup before he starts work with his owner.....how lucky are we...(and excited...it's gonna be within a month...hooray!!!!!!):smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026

If i get up earlier than usual Saturn just lies on his bed and looks at me (the old guys don't move til we make them anyway!) but at the normal time he's up being bouncy...

My own, not altogether clear, thinking on this is that animals (dogs even) are so far removed from us in terms of intelligence that it's difficult for us to appreciate the absolute simplicity of their thought processes. They have certain attitudes and instincts with which they are born, and conditioned responses which come about as a result of experience, including training. However, their ability to apply reasoned thought or any process of deduction is very limited although not entirely absent.
I suspect that they, like very young human children, live almost entirely in the world of "Now". Their understanding of "Past" is limited to the involuntary effect which past experience has upon present behavior, and their concept of "Future" may not go very far beyond the next few moments. Therefore any creature which exists only in the "Now" is unlikely to have developed and appreciation of, or ability to measure, the passage of time.
In the case of a dog who's absent owner's reappearance routinely coincides with some recognisable event or condition (e.g getting dark or feeling hungry) there is a learned response which could be seen as anticipation. Without that routine I think it is possible that, once the owner is out of sight, scent and sound, they have simply departed from the "Now" and therefore either no longer exist or remain only as a dormant memory. The thought that they may return in the "Future", or after a particular length of time, or at all, may not be there because from the dog's point of view the "Future" is an unknown concept.
The overwhelming greeting which the owner gets when he does appear is perhaps triggered by the awakening of dormant memory associated with comfort. The dog has no idea how long the owner has been gone and in the meantime may have had no "thoughts" at all on the prospect of a return. It understands only that something which it recognises as good is part of "Now".
I wouldn't claim that any of this is right because I simply don't know enough about it, in fact some patterns of behavior seem to go against it, but its about as far as I can get.