Nothing, which is why I'm remaining neutral and respecting that this is a very hard time for two people to be going through. You would do well to do the same for once.

Woody flushed a rabbit on our walk earlier. He yipped and barked with excitement like he was in pain and chased the poor thing for ages. He came straight back to me on the whistle but that doesn't mean I don't for one minute think he can be trusted 100%.

Dogs have instincts in them that are stronger than we will ever understand. PTS is not the immediate answer and a cure all for what we feel is bad behaviour.

I don't know how I feel about this particular situation to be honest but one thing I do feel is that it was a tragic accident and must have been horrific for the owners so accusations and strong opinions/attacks are best left.

The dog was standing over her.. not still ragging, or gripping or attacking. Who is to say that he wasn't in fact fighting to protect her from the others? That the reason he was covered in blood was because he was the one covering her to protect her? The others had little blood on them.. But then when Jackjack or Pharaoh used to kill rabbits there wouldn't be a drop of blood on them either, but Selkie who came in after the fact and just picked up the rabbit got absolutely covered... I cant say this was the case.. None of us can... We'll never know what happened that day.

Does anyone remember the story of a dog who the owners came in to find was covered in blood in the baby's room, I think it was a victorian story, bite marks clearly visible on the baby... They all assumed the worst. They ordered the gamekeeper to take the dog out and shoot him straight away.. But then when they were cleaning the room later, they found the body of a fox under the crib... Their dog was a hero not a killer...

Its not a cut and dried case when you weren't there to witness it...

Now.. If it were a different situation.. If one of my dogs attacked another of their doggy family in my sight and killed them and then went on to be dangerously unpredictable and aggressive.. Well thats another issue completely. Then I would look at the situation and make a decision based on the ongoing quality of all our lives...

But I couldn't make a final decision in a case like the one in the other post, where there could be any doubt at all.. We would add precautions and watch them closely for signs that his was a definite change in their behaviour, but I couldn't based on an assumption just kill him.. What if as someone else said in the other thread, you were to make that decision and then have one of the other dogs attack another and then be faced with that horrible feeling that you killed the wrong dog

You just have to take precautions and try to do what is best for all of the family...

Good advice considering your experience.

Oh dear, squeaking is not a good thing for a gundog to do, still he is a pet, wont be too much concern if he is reasonably responsive to you, its when they get into that state of excitement and catch something it can go very wrong and turn into an obsession. Why didnt you call him back immediately instead of letting him chase the "poor thing" for ages?

I dont think its "bad" behaviour, I think its an awful thing to happen, it would never happen more than once here.

Now I am 100% certain in what I said, and Im sure I said I know it could not have been foreseen and Im also sure I didnt blame the dog, so Im struggling a bit here, as opinions were wanted. Was it only opinions that agreed with the op? Didnt see that bit.

I think this ought not to be about the specific event.

It is more about what we as owners would feel if it happened to us.

Not what we think other people ought to be doing.

In some peoples world it is OK to kill animals who are not 'in the family' and OK to kill small mammals.

Me----I don't want my dogs to kill anything as I respect life--- be it the life of one of my dogs, the neighbours cat or the rabbits in the field.

In 50 +years of owning dogs I have never felt the need to encourage or allow them to kill. They enjoy their lives in other ways.

BTW----I don't believe for one minute BD would pts Livvy if she attacked one of the others. Like with the boxers excuses would be made and the showing would take precedent. How stressed must the dog that never started it feel having to deal with the aggressor on a regular basis?

rune

why do you keep mentioning showing?

why do you keep mentioning showing?

I think this ought not to be about the specific event.

It is more about what we as owners would feel if it happened to us.

Not what we think other people ought to be doing.

In some peoples world it is OK to kill animals who are not 'in the family' and OK to kill small mammals.

Me----I don't want my dogs to kill anything as I respect life--- be it the life of one of my dogs, the neighbours cat or the rabbits in the field.

In 50 +years of owning dogs I have never felt the need to encourage or allow them to kill. They enjoy their lives in other ways.

BTW----I don't believe for one minute BD would pts Livvy if she attacked one of the others. Like with the boxers excuses would be made and the showing would take precedent. How stressed must the dog that never started it feel having to deal with the aggressor on a regular basis?
rune

For people who show seriously temperment is paramount. Most people show to ensure their dogs are considered of good enough quality and type by a variety of judges to warrant passing their genes on. Temperment has got to be a serious decision when considering breeding, if a dog has an aggressive temperment, especially to the point of killing another dog, which is NOT common in wild packs, they will very rarely fight to the death, it should not be bred, end of. So having a dig at certain members saying they would make excuses because showing would take precedent is not really a good argument. Also, if a dog were to attack another dog at a KC show the owner faces a ban, public "naming and shaming" and also a hefty fine. Im sure Borderdawn, and any other exhibitors on here, would not risk a good reputation being ruined by continuing to show a dog that had killed one of its "pack" Whether they choose to have the dog PTS is each individuals decision, but I dont like showing being brought into it as aggression is NOT acceptable at a show and to suggest it is is quite unfair to exhibitors who put a lot of effort into socialising our dogs for the show ring.

ETA: the boxer example cant even be compared to killing IMO, especially with no biting taking place. That is just sorting out the pecking order IMO.

Because of this

"When i showed & my dogs were entire i had two males who fought. They would put each other "down" on their backs but thats as far as it went. It was always the same one that started it."

Inference being that the dogs were entire because they have to be to be shown---so the showing was more important than peace in the group.

rune