I fill them in with the knowlage I have of what can and does happen in the dog training world, not as I see them,

In your opinion, how did his light coloured suede boot on one side get soaked? No were did I say his boots were messy, I said one boot was soaked with slavers.

It's a method many older trainers used to use, Im not talking out my ear here,

as I have said before, im not anti-CM, but I am realistic about his approach and methods and where they are useful and where they are not...

The dogs he is training are clearly frightened of him and with regards to your point not training dogs to be well behaved by fear and intimidation is incorrect. Torture was once used as a method to extract information from people until it was found to be unreliable as information obtained in this manner is usually as a result of the person giving up and giving their tortutrers what they want to know to prevent them from being tortured.
If we apply this to dogs then dogs will simply give up when faced with forceful and abusive behaviour and simply do as they're told.
When I look at the video of CM on his skates being towed by his dogs and look at the dogs body language it does not scream out I am happy with this. They have ears back, tails down and so on. You need to be able to read dogs rather than just assume a well behaved dog is a happy one.
Becky

When I said about his boots being "messy" Shona I was merely making the point that because of the state of his boots, you assumed what you assumed (slavers, whatever).

I am sure you do have knowledge of what some trainers do (and what could be done off camera) but I think it's unfair to assume (and that's all it is) that CM was doing the stuff with the choke collar and so on, when it's not fact.

As for what I think happened about his boots being covered in slavers, how would I know? The thing is, he could have stepped in something, he could have dropped something on them. He also could have done exactly as you said he'd done with the dog in question but I don't think it's fair to make assumptions about what he WAS doing, as you nor I know for sure and I think suggesting that he was abusing (I know you didn't say the word but what you are accusing him of does amount to abuse in my eyes) the dog is completely unfair.

Like I said, Milan's dogs don't look or act like fearful dogs to me. They seem very confident and happy. As I understand it, when dogs are abused they have nervous, snappy, growly, watching over their shoulder type temperaments. CM's dogs are nothing like this. I can't see where all this negativity comes from with CM. Sure, his methods don't suit some but what people are accusing him of on here (violence, abuse) is a bit OTT for me

Sorry Mahooli, when did you become the Dog Whisperer or Doctor Doolittle

I've never claimed to be either, but you do need to have a little ability to read body language to be able to comment and the dogs he takes with his skates are not all overwhelmingly happy as their body language says otherwise.
Becky

Im not accusing him of anything, Im saying he used a well known method in the old school training world,

how people see that method of training is up to them, some will say its ok, some will not,.

I dont watch much of CM, the reason being, theres nothing new in what he does, his methods have been around for years, I have seen them practiced many times when I started training dogs, some are of use, others not so useful,
much depends on the dog your working with,

I think people look at CM's methods as some new great phenomenon, its not it all really old stuff,

poss its just because people who have never taken part in active training for a long number of years may have never seen it before, but its all been out there for a long time,.

the power of tv eh

so here are a few experts opinions then...

Dr. Nicholas Dodman, the director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine of Tufts University, has said "Cesar Millan's methods are based on flooding and punishment. The results, though immediate, will be only transitory. His methods are misguided, outmoded, in some cases dangerous, and often inhumane. You would not want to be a dog under his sphere of influence. The sad thing is that the public does not recognize the error of his ways." In a February 23, 2006, New York Times article, Dr. Dodman says of Millan's show, "My college thinks it is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years."[3]

Jean Donaldson, the San Francisco SPCA Director of The Academy for Dog Trainers states, "Practices such as physically confronting aggressive dogs and using of choke collars for fearful dogs are outrageous by even the most diluted dog training standards. A profession that has been making steady gains in its professionalism, technical sophistication and humane standards has been greatly set back. I have long been deeply troubled by the popularity of Mr. Millan as so many will emulate him. To co-opt a word like whispering for arcane, violent and technically unsound practice is unconscionable."[4]

On September 6, 2006, The American Humane Association issued a press release condemning Millan's tactics as "inhumane, outdated, and improper" and called on the National Geographic Channel to cease airing the program immediately.[5]

In October 2006, the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants wrote a letter to the National Geographic Channel regarding concerns "that the program may lead children to engage in unsafe behaviors." The Association called for a change in the program's rating of TV-G.[6]

In your opinion! They look fine to me and millions of others. Everyone has their own views, it's just that you seem to think yours are right. Your views are your opinion. If it were your dogs that were "not overwhelmingly happy" I'd take your opinion as read but you are just observing, same as I, so I don't think your opinion is any more valid than anyone elses that isn't closely involved with the dogs concerned

thanks for finding those C&D

it kind of reiterate's what I have said about "it all being very old stuff"

All dogs will present some universally obvious signals when distressed (or happy etc etc) THAT is what I am seeing. If you cannot recognise these signs then I suggest you go and find out about it.
It is also well known that in the main the vast majority of the dog owning public are not that well versed on dog behaviour so of course they wont see anything wrong with it because they don't know.
Becky