You are not 'failing' Cain - NOBODY could possibly be trying harder than you, of that I am sure.

Of course you are exhausted, the stress must be intense. And I know it's just so disheartening when it seems to be five steps forward, four steps back.

Do you remember I sent you the number for Nicky, the trainer I had? Is it worth giving her a call?

Even if she just gives you some advice or another name of a behaviourist? She's extremely down to earth and experienced.

Oh Amanda, I'm so sorry to hear this
Such a shame as Cain has been doing so fantastically. Please don't beat yourself up about it though, as you said, Cain is usually fine around your brother so it was unexpected for all concerned.
I guess it just demonstrates how much all your previous work has paid off and that Cain is not quite ready to deviate from the routine that works and makes him feel comfortable.

You do your very best for Cain and are the one of the most conscientious owners there can be. I hope things go well when you do manage to get in contact with a behaviorist, I'm sure there is always something good to come of someone viewing your dog with 'fresh eyes'.

Thanks all. I didn't post this to get sympathy, but I really appreciate the support.

Tabitha, I haven't rang Nicky because the last time this all blew up (when you gave me her number) I decided to take him to a fully qualified behaviourist. I'm sure Nicky is really good but I don't want to confuse myself by involving too many people. I already have three dog trainers (my trainer plus two at socialisation class) now I'm adding a behaviourist and I just think I'll confuse myself by involving too many people. If I wasn't going to the behaviourist then I would have definately called her.

I held off on the behaviourist for a few reasons. Firstly I heard mixed opinions about him and he was due to visit the socialisation class so I wanted to wait and meet him first to form my own opinion. In the end he didn't come, a colleague did. The other reason was I was advised to take a step back and calm down before any knee jerk reactions. However I'm kicking myself now, I wish I had gone back then and now it looks like we can't get seen until the New Year now

It's frustrating

But hopefully you'll have a really good session with him in the new year

Aww sorry to hear this.

Try not to beat yourself up. It's easy to become complacent when things have been going so well and it is just a reminder to stick to what works.

It reminds me of when Tara (GSD) was a youngster. My brother-in-law had just come to the house. He had never met Tara before and she was shut behind a babygate in the kitchen. BIL approached the gate and Tara barked and put her paws on the gate and OH told her to get off. With that my BIL said "oh she's ok, don't worry and put his arm around the back of her neck in a kind of hug . She bit him! A quick nip to the eyebrow

Tara has never had a problem with people and in fact is a complete tart and is anybody's for a belly rub. It was just too much familiarity too soon from a stranger entering the house.

You have worked wonders with Cain and it was just a slip up with no disasterous consequences, so give yourself a break.

You're not failing him at all! You've worked wonders with him; accidents happen, but in the end, no one got hurt, you've learnt from it and you can move on.

I know the feeling you describe well; whenever Anton reacts to someone, I feel awful, sometimes for a few days afterwards.

I'm sure you can pull back from here, hope everything goes well for you.

I have to say I agree with this. I think you have to be honest with yourself and ask exactly what it is you expect of Cain? Do you believe he will one day be a sociable dog whom is happy to accept strangers?

The reason I ask is because of my own experiences with Oscar. In the early days I would constantly beat myself up when he reacted badly towards people - I expected far too much of him realistically. He's not your average people loving dog and never will be. Once I understood this life became 100% easier as "the bar" was lowered and I was no longer constantly waiting for him to fail.

I understand Oscar is nowhere near as bad as Cain, but I think the principle is the same. Oscar is never allowed to greet visitors that he does not know in the house, even though his reactions towards strangers has vastly improved. If someone pops round he's either put in his crate upstairs, put outside or put in the car depending upon how long the visitors are staying!

My advice: reflect seriously on your end goal. What are you realistically expecting of Cain? Once you've established this then I'd reflect seriously on whether this goal is obtainable, because if it isn't you're wasting your time whilst also putting yourself and your dog through Hell.

Whatever goal you do decide on one thing is paramount: take baby steps. Never assume Cain will react predictably because fear aggressive/reactive dogs rarely do!

A dog like Cain may never be able to accept strangers in to the home, he may never be able to go to group training sessions, he may never be able to accompany you to a country fair, but who cares? He's your dog and he loves you.

I agree with this so much, my collie was not a sociable dog at all, with people or humans, he loved us and most members of our family and exactly as you say Ripsnorter once I accepted this our lives became easier and I am sure he was happier

I have to agree with C&D and Rips on this one.

The sooner we realised Ollie was never going to accept strangers and also a lot of our friends into the house we played on the safe side. Less stress for Ollie which was the most important and certainly less stress for us. He was happiest behind the stair gate where he could see and hear but not have to interact and we were happier because we could relax knowing everyone was safe.

We had a couple of instances like you did when people we had met for lunch came back to the house so our carefully laid plans were not in place. We asked them to wait in the garden and then let Ollie out to greet them but there was a strict do not speak to him or look at him request in place he was allowed to sniff them then he was moved away. If people came to the door unexpectedly it would be treats and distraction and taking away from the narrow hallway so they could enter he was put into a large space to be distracted.

They had to come through the house this was Ollie's trigger we would then take Ollie by the collar walk him through first and get him settled they would be walking in behind us it worked well for us.

You are doing a good job but I think you may be expecting and hoping that Cain will one day become a sociable dog with everyone. Hard as it sounds I wonder if you may be better thinking Cain is not going to be sociable dog through his life once you accept it does make things easier because you are never on your guard as much but the guard is never dropped if that makes sense.

I also wonder if there is slight conflicting advice from three trainers and when dealing with Cain there are subtle things that we would not notice in the delivery of how you deal with him but a dog would. I had advice and then I was the main trainer Gorden knew the rules and so did our son who lived at home then so if I or we were out the others knew what to do and how but it was me that in the main had Ollie all day and knew exactly what to do and how he ticked. We know for sure it was fear in Ollie. When he had to be hospitalised we told this by several vets. In the end when in the hospital he came to trust others he had no choice but we had to step back for this to happen. The thing being with this we were not there all the time they were and with him 24/7 friends and visitors and family that visit are the same they are not there all the time they come and go he cannot have time to suss them out get to know them get to trust them so he will always stay wary.

Don't ask me though why some members of the family are different that visit my son his partner and our 3 Grandchildren were fine and welcomed each and every time with enthusiasm. None of our friends were Ollie was wary of all of them.

It is hard work with a dog like this but you are doing a good job wth Cain.

I know how disheartening it is I have been there my other dog Max was no problems at all except with other dogs sometimes and I didn't understand in the beginning Ollie's issues once I did and accepted them and him for what he was and was never going to be I then managed much better.

I have a dog that hates strangers, and I used to work really hard with him in hopes that he'd be a good dog... However I realized that he was not happy being around strangers, and I have decided to let him be. I never let anyone interact with him, he is to be ignored at all times (kinda hard when he decided he likes a person and climbs into their laps! LOL) but I cant risk him getting nervous and reacting, so I tend to just keep him with me.

Same with being near strange dogs, it just doesn't happen, however he's able to learn that a dog's good and then play nicely, so he has a few friends, and that's enough for him. I have had to lower expectations, and now, I'm not so stressed about him.