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Chris
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09-03-2012, 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by Hali View Post
I'm sure on the coverage when someone asked whether the reserve would go through the answer was along the lines of 'no because we need to teach the judges a lesson'. So as you say MM, they seem to be getting at the judges athe expense of the exhibitors.

Doesn't not allowing the reserve to go through also send a very strong message to both breeders and breed clubs too?

I agree that it's harsh in the case of injury (although dogs with injuries should not be subjected to a stressful day's showing), but for other things - that message is very, very important if things are going to improve
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jeagibear
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09-03-2012, 07:58 AM
does anybody know if, or when the GSD's are on, please?
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Krusewalker
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09-03-2012, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
and, just like the Miss World competitions, once sidelined they would spring up again in another guise .

Now we have top name models, shows about top name models, shows picking out the next top model.

The wheel would eventually be reinvented if today's dogs shows were abandoned because people do like to show off their dogs.
true.

and these shows are viewed with negative connations.
they attract adjectives like trash tv, bimbos, pushy american mum's whom are considered appalling re those kid pageants in america, etc.

meaning the whole concept of the human beauty pageant has been reduced from its 70's respectability.... like the Daily Telegraph turning into the Sun.

sounds like a result

not a bad result if one applies the same cultural shift to beauty pageants to other species
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Chris
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09-03-2012, 08:12 AM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
true.

and these shows are viewed with negative connations.
they attract adjectives like trash tv, bimbos, pushy american mum's whom are considered appalling re those kid pageants in america, etc.
and yet still draw massive audiences
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Jackie
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09-03-2012, 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum View Post
No you're not being dumb - it's about skin issues apparently - as if people would show one with manky skin!

Many CC suffer with skin conditions, and yes you will see some of it in the ring.. but its not about showing them with a skin condition,its what the owners do to them to eradicate it before they go in the ring.


Originally Posted by cuzbull View Post
Denise Lees (owner of the bulldog) has stated on her FB page: "she has passed the buba health check back in December she failed today on a eye injury that the vet found when shining a torch in her eye.

It was on the Crufts FB forum also.
if that`s the case, then this decision is made purely on politics

And to note the judge would be free from any blame in this , as unless they (judges) have suddenly started to carry touches and shine them in the eyes to look for deeper issues, he /she cant be blamed for putting this dog up.


Originally Posted by Minihaha
In order to be eligible for BOB the dogs in question must have won their classes.
If any dog had a problem so serious it warranted elimination this should have been picked up by the judge before the dog won.

Years ago dogs used to be checked by a vet as they entered the show, I guess the Crufts entry is now so large this is no longer possible.

If I had been showing one of these breeds I would be very angry.
I agree, specially as my dog was excluded for having an old eye injury that only intense investigation could find.

I wonder if this is all down to politics?

We need to know why the Peke was disqualified too.
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Jackie
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09-03-2012, 08:18 AM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
true.

and these shows are viewed with negative connations.
they attract adjectives like trash tv, bimbos, pushy american mum's whom are considered appalling re those kid pageants in america, etc.

meaning the whole concept of the human beauty pageant has been reduced from its 70's respectability.... like the Daily Telegraph turning into the Sun.

sounds like a result

not a bad result if one applies the same cultural shift to beauty pageants to other species
In your opinion, thousands of people round the world would disagree with you.
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Loki's mum
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09-03-2012, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Many CC suffer with skin conditions, and yes you will see some of it in the ring.. but its not about showing them with a skin condition,its what the owners do to them to eradicate it before they go in the ring.




if that`s the case, then this decision is made purely on politics

And to note the judge would be free from any blame in this , as unless they (judges) have suddenly started to carry touches and shine them in the eyes to look for deeper issues, he /she cant be blamed for putting this dog up.




I agree, specially as my dog was excluded for having an old eye injury that only intense investigation could find.

I wonder if this is all down to politics?

We need to know why the Peke was disqualified too.
Exactly. The Peke judge is a very well respected judge of long standing. I wonder if the issue the Peke failed on would have been evident at all with the naked eye.
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Krusewalker
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09-03-2012, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
In your opinion, thousands of people round the world would disagree with you.
of course.

thousands would agree as well.

time will tell if society goes my way, as it did per the human version......
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ClaireandDaisy
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09-03-2012, 09:41 AM
I don`t really care if the dogs failed due to old injuries or politics. The message has been sent. That is the main thing.
I would like to see all dogs showing they are capable of a straight Sit, a free jump and a good run, with a check afterwards for laboured breathing.
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Nippy
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09-03-2012, 10:01 AM
I hope that this, politics or not, is sending out the message that enough is enough.
We want dogs that look like dogs, not hairy/bald mutants, dogs that can run, breathe, eat, pant.
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
I have just posted this on another site.... it sums up exactly what I feel.

As much as I agree with the KC's initiative, I think this has been a publicity stunt at the expense of the exhibitors who have worked to qualify for Crufts.

While I understand the KC is under pressure to be seen to be doing something, it would have been far more preferable to have put this vet checking into place at champ shows before qualification, instead of kneeing exhibitors in the groin once they get there.

I am all for changes, but not at the expense of exhibitors who have put their trust in other judges that led them to Crufts and found this thrust upon them at the very highest and most public level. If changes are to occur then it needs to be from the bottom up - and that means Open shows as well as Champ, because dogs can qualify for Crufts at Open level as well.

I don't know what the answer is - I don't show dogs, but have shown other animals over 30 years - and I can see where fairness lies.
I suspect it was done this way for maximum impact. I has certainly thrust it into the spotlight and hopefully there is no going back now.

Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
Height is not measured in most breeds. Neither are wrinkles!

Why not admire the dogs on the KC "worry list" that got through?

The Shar Pei was a superb looking dog - minimal wrinkles and wide open eyes that hadn't needed tacking. That's how some breeders have been working away behind the scenes to address certain issues.

The Chow Chow as well - a pretty open faced dog with big bright eyes, instead of the little piggy ones previously favoured.

The Pug must have been bang up to order as well, as they have had a hell of a lot of flack lately, despite many pugs doing agility and even CaniX.

Those are the dogs that everyone wants to see win because they are capable, and worthy of going on to produce the next generation.

It doesn't take a lot of knowledge to see what the tiny changes are, but if everyone demands instant transformation in a species that needs at least 5 generations to alter [read: 10-15 years of work], then impatience will be the biggest threat of all.

If change is forced more quickly then a severe genetic bottleneck will occur - fine by those who want all breeds eliminated; but not really acceptable to those who want to do right by their breeds.

I sometimes wonder about people who have no interest in breeding, how they think changes can be wrought so fast.
The breeding interest now has to shift to breeding animals that are going to be healthy specimens.
It has all been taken to a level that pleases the judges and breeders, nothing at all to do with the interest or health of the dog.
So now instead of discarding the dogs that don't conform to todays "fashion" maybe it is these that should be used for breeding?
Originally Posted by moetmum View Post
Actually I do. My breed is an ancient breed which naturally has wrinkle, it would no longer be true to the breed without wrinkle, there wouldn't be any breeds left if they lost their type.
You know, there are wrinkles and there are wrinkles.
Maybe this has done the Basenji a favour ..... before it becomes all wrinkles.

I admit I am not a breeder and that I have no knowledge of genetics, I am just a dog lover who hates seeing dogs uncomfortable or struggling.
Did anyone see that dogs skin between the folds? I think it was PDE. Euuuccckkkk
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