oh yes, we have just had a load of leaflets printed, and they are so good.......these are targeted towards the puppy farms, I will be uploading one shortly, and I will be distrubing them on the WWW

Sounds like a plan!

With all due respect, I don't think you're quite getting the point though. The KC are NOT a body that dictates who can and cannot breed dogs and how those dogs should be kept and reared. They ARE doing things to promote good health in dogs. They have introduced numerous schemes for health testing and are doing so in the future. But this does not mean that they are responsible when things go wrong for people and their dogs.

What do you think it is the KC have the power to do? What are they not doing that's making you blame them for all this?

Debs

Hi joanne and welcome to Dogsey Firstly, well done on your campaign, I do applaud your principle.

I think the issues you bring up are not quite so easily solved as would first appear. Health problems in pedigree dogs are no doubt more prevalent than would be if we didn't have irresponsible breeders but the blame for all the health issues you list in your first post shouldn't necessarily be put on the actual breeder.

The very concept of pedigree breeding means that some breeds will be predisposed to certain conditions that can only be loosley described as genetic, and in many cases, more to do with breeding within a closed gene pool, and/or selecting for certain breed characteristics.

Breeding within this closed gene pool means that any pedigree breeder is increasing the risk of producing defects. Health testing and DNA screening will of course reduce the risk of some of the more simply inherited conditions but with others that are multifactorial, as are many of the bone conditions, environment and the actual anatomy of the dog plays a substantial role.

I agree wholeheartedly that the KC could do an awful lot more....compulsory health testing and DNA screening at the very least, to address the basic level. The KC though have aleady taken steps to open the stud books to unregistered dogs to increase gene pools but unfortunately breed clubs don't seem to be supporting this.

Compulsory DNA profiling is also something that I think the KC could be working towards. It would make the practices of Puppy farmers much more difficult... but then we would probably see a drastic reduction in KC registrations. If the KC's standing takes too much of a bashing, which I think it has done over the last few years, then the general public will be less inclined to see their registration as desirable.

Hi Joanne and welcome to Dogsey.Sorry yuor having such dreadful problems with your puippy but unless they have lied on the pedigree there is really nothing the KC can do.
Is your pup KC registered, Does it stat on the KC forms what health checks the Sire and Dam have had and are they correct, is the right Sire and Dam on there.
Really thats all the KC are legally about.
Also did you make sure all the health tests for your breed were carried out.
I truelly understand were yourr coming from but the KC is not too blame.
Ive had people come to me for puppies who thought they were getting a KC reg puppy of other breeders (not my breed I might add) when in fact all they were getting was a 5 generation pedigree,.
I have to agree with Becky and Debs on this, Education is the way to go.

I am in the catagory you are on about, I show my dog and although rarely breed, when I do so it is done responsibly. Where do you think the majority of responsible breeders come from? People who show their dogs, so if we all packed in showing and breeding (cos no point in breeding if not intending to improve the breed)where are people going to get quality healthy dogs from? Breeds as we know them would be wiped out, leaving an even bigger gap in the market for puppy farmers!

So because we don't agree with the way things are run we aren't allowed to enjoy ourselves? I don't like the way the country is run so am I suppose to sit indoors sulking all my life, join the conservative party or move to another country? I can only speak for myself but my dogs health and welfare comes first and far exceeds any enjoyment I get from showing.

As has already been said - the main thing is to educate people when it comes to buying dogs. That is the only way things will improve. Yes I agree so why are the KC advocating breeding at 1 year old and father/daughter breeding? And as I said in my previous post why would anyone pay £750 for a pup with papers when they can get one for £500 with the same papers? The general public look to the KC for guidance and wrongly assume that a dog with papers is a safe bet. Yes they should have done their homework on the breed properly but when a governing body is basically giving their seal of approval then that is taken as good enough. If the KC looked up and said look being KC registered doesn't mean the puppies have been bred ethically and are of a healthy,good breed standard then fair enough but they don't.

So what do the KC actually do with regards to ethical, healthy breeding apart from have articles on their website? And what is the point of having the KC register if in reality it doesn't mean anything except you can charge more for your puppies and show of course.
I am sure that the KC have done things other than rake in money for shows and registering litters but can anyone tell me what? As I said before I have only been showing for 3 years and haven't seen anything yet.

What have the KC done?

The only reason you know how your dog is bred is because of the KC and their registration system. The only reason you can go to shows to assess your dog is because of the KC. Because of the KC, up and coming judges are being trained to effectively judge your dog at said shows. Because of the KC, you can contact your breed club and get advise from them. Because of the KC, those breed clubs will be able to tell you the relevant health tests your breed should have. Because of the KC you know that there will be people in your breed you can easily contact to get an in depth knowledge of your breed. Because of the KC you will be able to see, through the breed record supplements, who is breeding your breed and how many puppies they're producing. This will help you in finding out if the person you are going to for a puppy is breeding on a large scale or not. It will also help you in finding a breeder whose dogs have done well in the showing field (if looking for a show puppy). You will be able to see if they are selling dogs to other peope who are winning with them.

There's so much more. There are plans afoot to monitor judges to make sure they are not rewarding exagerations in a breed which would be detrimental to it's health. They are in the process of expanding the relevant breed testing to try and make sure that more and more stock are tested before being bred from.

If you want to work your dog in another competative field (working trials, obedience, agility, etc) you can rest assured that the people running the competitions are working to KC rules and that the judges will have passed the relevant exams/assessments to enable them to judge with a greater degree of knowledge.

The KC isn't just about registrations and showing. But it's also not a company which is responsible for all the ills regarding dog breeding.

Debs

That is what I have been trying to say, but yours is better written


Thank you all for your welcomes

I agree.

I know of two instances where someone has called the KC for information on a breeder and the KC have said they are fine to buy from, yet the KC also hold serious complaints of puppy farming about that breeder, so should not have recommended them.

You just pay for a family tree for your dog and paperwork so you can show it, thats all they're good for.

But the thing is, why contact the kennel club about breeders? Why not phone the breed club...go to shows/trials and talk to owners/breeders??? The KC is a blanket dog organisation and can't be expected to know everything about every breeder. On top of that, if they had complaints, until they have been proved one way or the other, then the kCs hands are tied.
It is all about education and puppy BUYERS really do have to take some responsibility. It's hard work finding the right puppy, but it's important....and even if you find the right puppy, you can still be unlucky and find your pup has health or temperament issues.
I truly don't see how the KC can be responsible for every pedigree puppy....

I agree, they shouldnt be held responsible for people who cant be bothered to research, BUT they should be held responsible for recommending breeders, who have a lot of complaints against them, some of which have been proved and upheld.