I agree to a large extent. The same can safely also be said about working collies. Shepherds and farmers want a dog that can do the job, has the inherent instinct and is healthy - looks aren't important. However, I was looking at it more from the other side of the fence so to speak. I find it a shame that show collies are bred for looks and conformation and working ability/instinct come very far down the list of priorities. I just think it would be preferable if there were more dual purpose dogs out there - although, I guess at the end of the day, the workers will work and the show people will show - and never the twain shall meet.

then what is the point in showing them,to see if youve a good example of the breed,before you breed,if you just want the said dog for working,but only want to keep one pup,for working what bout the rest.

Not sure I quite understand but here goes - if I have a good working dog that works well in the field, why is that so different to a dog winning shows? A dog working in the field is showing it's working instinct, a dog winning in the show ring is showing it's good conformation. It depends on what you want a dog for. A friend had a litter of gwp's. There were 9 in the litter and all but one went into working homes. She refused a lot of homes because she thinks that this breed is a working breed. The one that went into a pet/show home, the owner already had a gwp and my friend new her.

Some breeds should not be in your "average" pet home. Look how many springers are in rescue. Why is that? Because they can be hard work and need a lot of training. A lot of pet homes are totally suitable for a springer but on the other side of the coin, a lot aren't. That's why you get so many in rescue.

GWP rescue isn't so bad. I have had 2 this year in my area (NE) but have had a couple of calls from people who have taken on this breed and need advice, which I am more than happy to give.

I know a lot of ESS owners who will only sell a pup to a working home. In fact, Pippa, my springer, was only sold to me because it was a working home. The responsible ESS breeders aren't letting them go to unsuitable homes. The majority of the litter do go into working homes, and if they don't, they make sure they go into a suitable home. There are just too many people breeding them irresponsibly, hence the problems in rescue.

I get laughed at for showing Teal from the shooting fraternity. It's only a bit of good natured ribbing, but they can't see the point. A dog is there to work, not taking to a beauty pageant. They just don't see the point.

[quote] I find it a shame that show collies are bred for looks and conformation and working ability/instinct come very far down the list of priorities. I just think it would be preferable if there were more dual purpose dogs out there - /[quote]

I used to think like that about springers but now, I just get on with working my dogs and enjoying them. I've seen this debate numerous times on working/shooting message boards and you get the people who think that conformation should matter and then the people who think that working ability is the most important thing. Depends what you are into I suppose.

Helen