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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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06-01-2008, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox 
Well I have just watched an episode, with a standard smooth Dacshie.........it will attack one of its owners , through being possessive over the other.
CM has just made the girl sit next to the dog (who is sitting on the others knee)...he taked the girls had , and forces her to stroke the dog............you could see the body language from miles off, the dog was not happy, he turned away from the hand....CM kept the contact up, the next min, the dog turns and attacks
CM picks it up ,upends it in a body role on the floo,r and uses his "bite" technique to keep it there.....the dog looks "terrified"....and guess what, CM , has puncture wounds all over his hands.What on earth did this achieve....nothing, he took the dog to his centre for 3/4 wks, castrated it, and at one point sat it on a chair with the the owners cloths,(to test its possessiveness) the dogs was cringing, would not make eye contact with CM, was physically recoiling away from him.
The result , 3/4 weeks later when the dog was returned to owner, the weaker owner, still could not get the dog to get off the bed.
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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06-01-2008, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha
Dawn
I did not say the dog was scared of CM.The point I am making in my post is CM stated this dog was dog aggressive and it did not appear to be so to me.He then advocated a method of controlling the dog which had it been used on a real dog aggressive dog could have resulted in the person using this method getting badly bitten (once the adrenalin is flowing it is difficult to stop an aggressive dog) . CM appears to be unaware of a dogs body language. This was also named as 'One of his toughest cases'
Next time you come on here Dawn and I think you are getting a little too excited I will ask someone to go round to your house and pin you to the floor
they'd have to catch me first! 
Yes I see the point youre making, but really we dont know if thet PB would of attacked, I think it would of, given the chance.
I also think he is very aware of dog language, just looking at his own dogs and they way they co-habitate is enough to suggest he understands dogs pretty well. Many people cant keep 2 pet dogs together, let alone dogs that have come from situations like some of CM have.
I think there has been far too much "clicking" and faffing of dogs of late, every single thing a dog does, click and treat! Yet I cant see any real benefits, except as Luke has said a dog expecting to be fed treats every five minutes! Bribing dogs off furniture, then when it gets down give it a biscuit, feeding them cheese because they didnt rip a hole in your leg the last time you passed them, its insane! No wonder this day and age we have the worst behaved dogs ever and not to mention the worst behaved kids, its the same with them, cant do this cant do that! AARRGGHH!!
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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06-01-2008, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
I think there has been far too much "clicking" and faffing of dogs of late, every single thing a dog does, click and treat! Yet I cant see any real benefits, except as Luke has said a dog expecting to be fed treats every five minutes! Bribing dogs off furniture, then when it gets down give it a biscuit, feeding them cheese because they didnt rip a hole in your leg the last time you passed them, its insane! No wonder this day and age we have the worst behaved dogs ever and not to mention the worst behaved kids, its the same with them, cant do this cant do that! AARRGGHH!!
I use Clicker training abit in Ob Training but not in everyday life.
It was useful recently when Mav lost abit of confidence in Scent & wouldnt even leave my side to go NEAR the cloths, i went back to clicking for abit, little movements etc & its fixed! (phew!!) Its a useful tool.
I will always try to introduce it to a pup,so its there if i need it. Out of all mine Mav is very responsive to it & learnt His Retrieve & DC very quickly using it.
I dont use it now but its there if i need it!
Not very good vids, but here is my pup,Showing Ret training at 4months
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...P1010002-1.flv
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Location: NW Scotland
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 432
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06-01-2008, 07:36 PM
In fairness Nat geo labelled it as one of the toughest, surely.
I agree over excited dog, un socialised, owner making things 100X worse. I dont remember from the show whether it showed the dog as dog aggressive but im sure at the very least the owners had provided enough info to state categorically that she was. I didnt see a worried stressed dog at any point under CM s control. The first "roll" was more an interuption of being guided (not forced) onto its side and immediately stroked. The second time the dog ended up on its back was the dogs own doing by fighting against the lead and the handler to get to do what it wanted.
As for the Dacshie mentioned, I dont know the show in detail of the top of my head but i reckon ive seen it, and like all the other cases those with differing opinions see different things.
Can I say there have again been a couple of points that arent really based on fact or that will be constructive to the debate, imo. Neither the FOR or AGAINST posters can say that we are ABSOLUTELY correct in our OPINIONS, a few posts have come across as IM RIGHT AND THATS FACT COS I THINK IT IS, lol.
can we keep it nice.
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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06-01-2008, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Callum
I watched the clip although Ive seen it before.
In fairness Nat geo labelled it as one of the toughest, surely.
I agree over excited dog, un socialised, owner making things 100X worse.
Can I say there have again been a couple of points that arent really based on fact or that will be constructive to the debate, imo. Neither the FOR or AGAINST posters can say that we are ABSOLUTELY correct in our OPINIONS, a few posts have come across as IM RIGHT AND THATS FACT COS I THINK IT IS, lol.
can we keep it nice.
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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06-01-2008, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
I use Clicker training abit in Ob Training but not in everyday life.
It was useful recently when Mav lost abit of confidence in Scent & wouldnt even leave my side to go NEAR the cloths, i went back to clicking for abit, little movements etc & its fixed! (phew!!) Its a useful tool.
I will always try to introduce it to a pup,so its there if i need it. Out of all mine Mav is very responsive to it & learnt His Retrieve & DC very quickly using it.
I dont use it now but its there if i need it!
Not very good vids, but here is my pup,Showing Ret training at 4months
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...P1010002-1.flv
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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06-01-2008, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
cant see the video Mishflynn! It says "bad request" can you try again for me.
Try again
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...P1010002-1.flv
Not that this has anything to do with CM,very OT
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Location: NW Scotland
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 432
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06-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Lovely dog. I understand having it there to help re affirm a training/practice. I have never used clicker training, never had the need but I do go back to basics on occasion with our dogs to re affirm things.