yes...youre right!! ...and i agree,im just wondering if he is trying to be "pack leader"..but maybe the standing on 2 legs thing gives it away!! ..i do agree with you,,im just trying to look at all angles, i think its wrong the way he has gone about things,i would just like him to explain himself!!!

Pippam have a read of this, this shows that the most important veterinary, training, behaviour and other organisations do NOT support CM:

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

(even WSPA is in there, speaking against his methods!)



A US organisation for training and behaviour was also a member, but had to get out as they were worried about being sued.

CMs heavies have tried to lean on UK dog magazine's editors and there is one Youtube video in particular which shows that a dog is used to wind up so called aggressive dogs (bad for the dog, bad for the "aggressive" dog too).

CM laughed during this video of the wind up dog - yes, LAUGHED.

To be honest, that says it all. He is in it for the money and is sadly taking gullible owners for one heck of a ride.
Wys
x

Have you watched dogs tell each other off? Very often there is lots of body language to read before anything even kicks off, which a savvy dog will read and back off from, but if it does escalate then it's often lots of noise but no physical contact. Moon's Mum/Amanda on here began meeting up with us as her doggy needed to learn some socialisation manners and when he first crossed the manners line with Kiki, it was lots of stiff body language, and when he continued to push it, snapping and snarling but no actual biting. I wouldn't put my dog in a situation where she was forced to bite another dog, and Amanda wouldn't put hers in a situation where he'd get bitten - dogs don't do this supposed behaviour Cesar is trying to mimic.
The problem with CM is he's trying to push an incorrect theory across a species barrier that he cannot fix.
http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti.../dominance.htm
http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/why-wont-dominance-die/

True pack leaders(in wolves)are the parents of the rest of the pack & rarely do more than give a look or body signal to stop unwanted behaviour, this is the same if there is a"dominant"dog in a group of dogs that live together. I've only had one such dog(well bitch)in all the time I have had dogs since 1958. She never growled(which is a warning not a threat), a bite nor a snarl, she either looked at the aggressors & gave a big sigh or she went towards them very stiffly on her toes, the behaviour would stop almost at once & we never had any contact disagreements between the other dogs.

Dogs are aware that we are not dogs & ergo can never be the"pack leader"as we are not in their pack.

This new article is interesting

Just to note I agree with what I have bolded!
Jodee I hope you dont mind but I have PM'd you about the bits in bold (which I agree with the post incase anyone thinks otherwise from this btw)

I realise you have a lot of experience and would just like some input from you if this is ok?

Also I want to ask can you have dogs that are so unsocialised/dont know how to read other dogs that they ignore this and then that affects the other dogs behaviour too? (if that makes any sense, not sure I have put that across well.. )

simple answer - yes
and in general that will mean the other dog has to build up their warnings until the other dog DOES take notice

A well socalised polite dog will build up their warnings step by step and give the other dog plenty of chances - and stop as soon as their warnings have been heeded (or if the owners are savey if they have stopped the other dog)

i found the video sick, i dont like CM and disagree with any sort of physical repremand. I have only ever learnt one think from CM and that was how to approach and nervouse dog and this has come in very handy with my dog.

My brother runs a security company and they use dogs, the training here is maybe more forcefull than i would do with a house hold dog but he only has one physical repremand and its a take down and only to be used if a dog is somehow loose and going for a take down of his own on somebody he shouldnt. I have done this to a dog and dont think it would be classed as extream its basically a rugby tackle. He thinks CM is a ******. He manages to the one in total control at all time as his dogs respond to a comand in an instant without a raised voice/hand/foot. A simple "ahh ahh" will stop any misbehaving i also use the "ahh ahh" with Phoebe and she will stop what she is doing when i do.

I can only think of one situation where physical actions should be used to correct a dog and that is if the dog is trying to kill me or somebody else.

I know its voluntary I say 'Izze rolls' because she is the one causing Jo to roll herself, I wasn't meaning to imply that she forced her on the ground lol, sorry for the confusion.

So if a human does the same to cause a dog to display submissive posture, then won't it have the same effect as if another dog does it? Mine will do this if I use body posturing & language but in no way do I force them to the ground

That kind of depends on WHY you think a dog rolls on its back

imo the dog isnt rolling to say 'you are the boss of me I have been very bad I will never do that again'

They are more saying 'please calm down, please dont hurt me'

So in that context I would never want my dogs to roll for me - it would mean that they were concerned and threatened by me and asking me to calm down

not that they were learning anything about what I was trying to 'discipline' them about

and even if it did mean the first thing that is not a way I would like to train dogs, better for them to work with me because they enjoy it and they want to rather than because they fear my anger

The simple fact is that dogs cannot "Alpha Roll"each other, they can pin each other to the ground, but it is physically impossible for one dog to AR each other.

Dogs are far better at reading each other's body language than we mere humans, the dog not wanting to get hurt instinctively rolls on it's back to show non aggression.

The only time my dogs roll on their backs for me is when they come for a tummy tickle in my lap