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Evie
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04-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
Dogs don't have the ability to kill all bacteria from raw food, some times what happens when feeding raw is a back up of bacteria builds up in the intestine...which can and does cause problems with some dogs
I've never heard of this before either. I'd be interested in reading up on any studies or info you have to support this claim please. As a raw feeder I like to stay well informed.
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inkliveeva
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04-06-2009, 11:51 AM
There always will be a higher risk of parasites and bacteria in raw food, its common sense, cooking the meat would kill off the bacteria and parasites.
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Louise13
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04-06-2009, 12:22 PM
Freezing also kills off mostly all the bacteria..and usually only pork has parasites..(hence why I don't feed pork much)
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Gnasher
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04-06-2009, 12:24 PM
Cooking defeats the object though of the BARF diet. I personally will not feed cooked meat to Tai, and will take my chances on bacteria, but the meat I feed is clean and does not smell, so all should be well. In addition, it arrives frozen from Landywoods, and as Louise rightly points out, that kills off the bacteria.
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Sarah27
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04-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva View Post
Dogs don't have the ability to kill all bacteria from raw food, some times what happens when feeding raw is a back up of bacteria builds up in the intestine...which can and does cause problems with some dogs
I've never heard of that either. I have read about studies of the faeces of raw fed dogs containing salmonella, but not actually affecting the dog.
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Evie
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04-06-2009, 01:49 PM
There is actually a higher rate of samonella in commercial pet food fed dogs than there is in raw dogs. I had links to studies on my old puter, but since I got this new one back in Dec I've lost them.

Dogs have stomach acids 10 times stronger than our own. With freezing foods to kill of parasites as well as only feeding human grade meats, I'm willing to take the (percieved) risk. I know many raw feeders that have been feeding such for many, many years. So long as good hygiene is followed the risks are low.

I feel that unless you have evidence to suggest that "when feeding raw is a back up of bacteria builds up in the intestine" it is simply scaremongering.
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moetmum
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04-06-2009, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by jesterjenn View Post
Oooh what sort of meats please?

May sound strange, but do they smell ok? Last time I ordered from Landywoods it stank and I threw a lot of it out.
I wasn't happy with my last order from Landywood, the lamb smells, I have been cooking it which defeats the object, the beef seems ok though. I am going to try a different supplier next time.
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inkliveeva
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04-06-2009, 02:35 PM
Like everything, theres pros and cons...
Bacteria

Pets are just as susceptible to the bacteria and parasites in raw meat as humans arc. Sahnonella, E. coli, campylobacter and trichinosis can cause severe illness and death. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has found that a high percentage of meat and poultry contains at least one strain of bacteria. Hence, the agency advises that you thoroughly cook meat and poultry. Toxoplasma, a parasite found in warm-blooded animals, can also be transmitted from raw or undercooked meat. David T. Roen, DVM, writes, "A veterinary neurologist told me the other day that they have seen au increase in seizure disorders in dogs and cats caused by toxoplasmosis, especially in areas where raw meat diets are trendy."

When I asked Geoff Stein, DVM, he wrote: "The problem with these 'natural' diets is the misguided assumption that 'natural' is better. It's 'natural' for wolves to die of salmonella once in awhile." He added that wolves would probably be healthier if they ate cooked meat.

Many raw food proponents theorize that freezing meat will kill bacteria. Not so. Laboratories preserve bacteria and viruses by freezing them. Cooking meat is the best way to eliminate the potential for illness.
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Evie
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04-06-2009, 03:10 PM
Yes, it is true that freezing will only halt growth of bacteria and not kill it. It will however kill off any parasites in the meat.

Dogs are not "as susceptible to the bacteria and parasites in raw meat as humans are" because their stomach acid is ten times stronger than ours and with a much shorter and smooth digestive tract that the food moves through much quicker, bacteria does not get the chance to take hold as it might if we ate raw meats. Dogs are designed to eat it.

I'm interested in learning more about your correspondance with Geoff Stein, and where his area of expertise lies?
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Gnasher
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04-06-2009, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by moetmum View Post
I wasn't happy with my last order from Landywood, the lamb smells, I have been cooking it which defeats the object, the beef seems ok though. I am going to try a different supplier next time.

It won't hurt your dog, moetmum ! They have the stomach acid and enzymes to cope with a bit of smell ! Think of how they love to dig up a rancid old bone that has been festering away underground for weeks - Hal's favourite trick !!

The chicken wings are sometimes quite smelly. The trick is to freeze them in very small batches, say only 6 in a bunch, so that they don't have a chance to putrify in the fridge. They will not hurt your dog I promise you.

I prefer my meat "well hung" to this bright red, horrible tasteless stuff you get in Tesco. Beef should be dark red, almost black, with lovely creamy yellow fat and smelling nicely of beef !
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