I'm intrigued, do you go straight for the e-collar option with these dogs, Adam?

I ask because there are many contributing factors to separation anxiety and very often, just a change in where the dog is left 'cures' the problem

Whenever e-collars are mentioned in this particular area of training, I am reminded of the e-collar trainer who boasted of using an anti-bark collar to 'cure' his dog's barking when left (a very dangerous course of action in a multi-dog household which can lead to fatalities). BUT, and it is a big BUT, the dog wasn't cured. Sure, the barking had dropped to a whine just below the intensity that would set off the collar and the owner and neighbours were happy, but what about the dog? The dog in this case was still clearly distressed when left. Is that what e-collar trainers call an 'effective' result????

ive asked 2 questions with genuine interest and i got nothing.
Adam this is why people go on that you only want to talk to people to sell em a collar, which i dont think is true by the way

agree i would very much like you to answer my last post, post number 71, really interested in the answer

Sorry for late replys guys I have been busy.

I will try to answer all questions, but remember I cannot post two in a row so if I miss it in a post just ask again.

So Scotty

Yes even with all the time in the world I would advise straight away e collar training the dog.
Why?
Because its very much better for the dog tbh.
The dog gets a lot more freedom in a lot shorter time, I hate this open ended crap about long lines and all that, It just means a life of restriction and a cop out from the trainer with many dogs.
With behaviour problems the dog (who suffers from sep anxiety/aggression/fear and by that I mean is suffering) gets over it far quicker and is thus far happier, this is obviously a massive improvement from the dogs perspective!
Even if a dog is hugely foody and could be trained in the same time and to same reliablity as with an e collar I would still use the e collar!
This is why, 1st see my first bit about negative reinforcement/stress/frustration in reward based training. Yes I do use reward based in the e collar work (could call me a reward based e collar trainer!) but by using the e collar as well you double the communication, the dog learns better and in each rep of learning the dog is getting a lot more feedback (from the collar as well as food and praise) and is less stressed by worry about what gets it the food.
I have seen anxiouse dogs that got more anxiouse with food training calm right down with food/collar training.

Re speed v happiness I think the above covers the happiness.

Brierly/sep anxiety, yes I would, most of my cases are hard core/end game and all the normal stuff has been tried and failed! Why subject the dog to any more distress messing around with ineffective cures.

Dobermann, the previouse posts about stress/frustration in training illustrate my point excatly. You lot can kid yourselves that its nice for the dog to beat the frustration and all part of the game but its flatout aversie learning regardless.

Dawes paws 71, I just read the dog and give lots of rests/play. I use release commands a lot so most of the reward is the dog doing its own thing, I will often train recall on a normal walk round the local park so the dog is just having his normal exercise and learning a new behaviour as well.

Moons mum/misflyn, I made no mention of any specific dogs/members. However seeing as you brought Cain up I will mention him.
Tbh I couldn't care less about you situation with him atm, why? I have offered to help you numerous times over the past 6 months or how ever long its been and you haven't bothered. Basically you've made your bed you can now lie in it for the next 14 yrs or however long he lives.
I do feel sorry for Cain, basically you took him on about the same time as I took Jacca on and what has Cain got now that he didn't have then, still iffy with dogs, still confined to a lead, still stressed/frustrated/fearful/aggressive every walk. What has Jacca got? A life tbh, 3 hours off lead on dartmoor today, thursday he will spend an hour at aglity most of which will involve playing with his buddies, he comes out with me as a stooge dog, runs round parks with packs of dogs and goes out riding with me!

Sorry if that upsets you but there you go.

Adam

So why do I feel so much sorrier for Jacca than Cain?

I know you dont care but I do!

Damn, I promised myself not to give you anymore oxygen!!!

What checks do you carry out before starting work?

I think you said you have been using the collar for about a year now? How many cases of separation anxiety have you dealt with?

thanks for the reply, but the recall example was just that, an example, i kind of guessed the answer to that one, but was the best and easiest one i could think of to explain, i want to know how you deal with the dog "having enough" when training things like sit down, left, right, heelwork etc.

but Adam, if it was a flat out aversive wouldnt it just prevent the behaviour, not encourage it?

Hi Adam

What is Denis' real name?