The fact is that Staffords have always come in different shapes and sizes and when the original standards where in place, no one moaned about the fact they were under standard etc, but as soon as the new standards came in and all of sudden every stafford had to be between 14-16 inches, if you did not meet this the dogs still conforming to the OS was not a correct Stafford, how does that work then?

this thread is ment to be about if breeding to these standards is dangerous, not wether you like your stafford KC standard or not.
do not turn this into a personal arguement

No No Clair no argument with you, just saying in general and No its not dangerous what so ever

Sorry but you are talking about the Irish stafford! if you trace the true " Irish lines " you'll find that they came from KC lines! they are Just Staffs! plain and simple! I agree with some bits from both sides, It's dangerous for the dogs, at the moment due to the bad press. I don't think the dogs, in them selfs, are a danger! at all lol they are just staffies after all! lol a bit bigger and just as soft! I don't agree witht the reduction in height but not weight? that, to me, makes no sense i.e. dog A is a stafford champ from the late 1970's he is the best example to date! dog B is a dog from 1980 something he looks nothing like dog A he is 2" shorter and the same weight but has just beat dog A in a show due to dog A being disqualified as he is now over the standards height??? whats all that about? if it's not broke don't fix it!!

There seems to be a bit of avoiding the main issue.
Staffs were bred to fight, to have build and temperament to maximise that `ability`.

Lets simplify the question and get to the real point.

Is it or is it not more dangerous to breed to `original` - as in dogs physically built to fight and with fighting temperament / tenacity / drive.

Thats the `original` versus present day consideration which is particularly relevent in the breed.

when you put it like that patch then yes, they are more dangerous, as the 'original standard' as they were more agile for fighting

thats the main reason why I can't see why people still breed to these standards, but thats my opinion

all the breeders of the " old type stafford, Irish staff " that I have the pleasure of knowing DO NOT breed for " fighting Temperment " as you put it. there aim is for a fitter healthy dog nothing more nothing less.

here are some clear dangers of the taller Irish dogs!!

there is a clear danger they will put a smile on a small childs face!

then they will want a kiss!!

even the smallest of children isn't safe from there deadly charm!!

jokeing aside they have to be told off from time to time for crimes against flowers!!

this one is behind bars for being TO CUTE!!

In the days before dog fighting, [ and bear baiting before that ], was banned, there was no standard as such, they were bred to fight and there were many variations in build depending on breeders preferences for what they felt gave the best advantage to fight, be it stocky and shorter, or more rangy, and other variations.

So those breeding for `original` have no actual `original` physical standard to follow as such, therefore how can anyone claim to breed to an `original standard` unless it is to breed dogs particularly capable of fighting, [ whether they intend to have that happen or not ], as per the actual `originals` of the times when fighting was legal...

Regarding temperament, Staffies rarely start a scuffle, [ those not used for fighting ], because they are supposed to be confiden in themselves and not easily phazed, however they are more than prepared to finish a fight and once they have they can all too easily have it ingrained to then *want* to fight, [ more than pure fear related dog aggression, as mentioned thats a separate issue which can affect any dog of any breed / ,mix ], from that moment on and if optimumly physically built to fight that spells potentially big trouble.
Thats a temperament issue which needs addressing, [ I believe so anyway ], and using any dogs from `original` established fighting strains will not help stop that temperament issue occuring for future dogs.

I probably have`nt explained very well, my braincell has been overworked already today, so please could everyone bear that in mind before reading my comments the wrong way

great pics sky high

clair you say they are more dangerous as tey were bred to be more agile for fighting, how does being agile make them dangerous? being trained to fight and accessing that prey drive in their heads is what makes them dangerous and even then it is due to human intervention - the animal wasnt born that way was he? the only wasy i can think of describing it just now is he is being trained to act on that part of his nature just like when collies are used as working dogs they are being taught and shown how to do it they dont just go and do it and get it right - hope that makes some sense.

and i dont know anyone breeding to the original type that participates in any illegal activities eg dog fighting they do it coz they enjoy keeping their dogs fit, they love the breed and its history and its their hobby!