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Chris
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27-02-2012, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
To be honest the mind boggles that anyone can look at the original example of the breed and compare it to where we are today and defend breeding for the show ring as a way to preserve breeds
Whilst I agree with you for the most part, it really shouldn't be forgotten that the Peke was designed as a low-energy dog. Look at the evolution of the breed and you'll see they were often carried in the sleeves of the Chinese at court.

Breathing difficulties are another matter, but I doubt the Pekes of today have any more or less energy than when they were first developed
Ripsnorterthe2nd
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27-02-2012, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
Only an hour and a bit to go before we can start a whole new debate!!!
You seem just a tad too excited by that prospect!
rune
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27-02-2012, 08:13 PM
Rips post no 384 has so brightened a dull morning

Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd View Post
Likewise!

My post contained some interesting points which could be discussed, your post contains bog standard accusations with no informative content whatsoever. It's like The Sun vs The Telegraph all over again eh?!

Loving the Sun versus the Telegraph!




It's quite clear to me now that you and the likes of JH are only interested in throwing insults in order to make yourselves feel better about yourselves, as do those who, for some reason feel inferior to those of us who do show. Such a shame, an opportunity for a good debate wasted by the closed minds of anti show folk


At last, an informative post. So I wonder how much this dog relates to the breed standard created? Did it exist before or after the standard was created I wonder? I'd be very interested to see how different the two were anatomically once the coats were removed.

There's certainly more of a muzzle and less coat on this dog, in fact it reminds me of a Tibetan Spaniel as the article states!
In answer to BM's post she writes

This post doesn't make a lot of sense I'm afraid so I can't really respond to it! All I can do is to try and put it another way: take the current Peke out of the show ring and take it back to the life it should've had when it was created and ask the question: would it struggle to live a normal life? The answer is no one can say, and that's my point. Stop to think before you judge something and condemn it purely because it's something you don't agree with. To do so would make you just as blinkered as the show people who breed regardless of health and welfare.
So she is defending the fact that the peke needed an icepack by saying that it 'might' have been all right a thousand or so years ago when it was 'created'. Well that makes it all right then---obviously. Silly of anyone to think that it would be better able to walk with out overheating.



Like I said, in my mind (and those of ethically sound judgement) the end can never justify the means. It's "done some good" but if the damage it may have caused outweighs the good it has done, what good has it really done?
So only she and those who agree with her have 'ethically sound judgement'--duh!

Re the second part---no proof either way except anecdotal.

She then reposts a post on how JH got it very wrong about one dog.

Absolutely agree with this. Here is a snippet Sal posted a long time ago showing JH's true colours and as a result someone that should not be trusted or believed!

Yet again I ask, if she is so concerned about the consumer and the dogs sold to them, why target the 2% of dogs bred and sold by the show fraternity, as opposed to the 98% bred and sold by BYBs and PFs! Hmmm, I wonder why.....[/QUOTE]

Does this mean that pekes are healthy---of course it doesn't! It is like saying because David Attenborough lied about filming polar bears in the wild he can't be trusted about anything in his films!

It is yet another red herring.

Facts are that breed standards in some breeds were causing breeders to breed without thinking about what they were doing in order to win (please the judges).

They lost sight of common sense in reaching for rosettes, it was OK because everyone else was doing it so it became accepted. It took someone on the outside to shake the system and it needed a big one, they had been ignoring and being unpleasant about Beverley Cuddy for years. She has had the same flack JH has had.

Well done to both of them for being strong enough to do what they have done.

BTW---I am not anti show any more than I am anti obedience or anti working trials. Doesn't float my boat any more than baby shows do but some of my best friends show their dogs and enjoy it.

rune
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27-02-2012, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Point proven re the flack!

rune

??????? so BC should be praised & adored for breeding inbred dogs ?????
JoedeeUK
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27-02-2012, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by astle9 View Post
The other interesting point is what channel is Crufts on this year oh yes More 4 not exactly prime time eh, channel 4 would be bad enough but More 4, i suppose you can watch it online on youtube or crufts own but not exactly the BBC is it.
Everything has a flip side.
The difference is that the BBC tried to dictate to the KC which dogs should be able to compete for BIS & the groups & be classified at the show. The KC refused & ended the BBC's contract.

The coverage available on More 4 is far better(no Ben Fogle), longer & more related to the dogs & not the stalls that are at the show.

Add to this there will be free recording available of ALL the Obedience & not just 30 seconds of the winning dogs like the BBC had reduced coverage to.
EllesBelles
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27-02-2012, 09:29 PM
Is anyone watching this now?

The Cav bit made me cry, having had two who both died.

The boxer bit now is pretty tragic, too And the attitude of some of the breeders...
alexgirl73
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27-02-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm sitting here absolutely astonished at the attitudes of the breeders, horrified at the trauma and pain the poor dogs are having to go through, and saddened that it has come to this
EllesBelles
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27-02-2012, 09:35 PM
It's just so...horrid. I don't understand how dog lovers, who are usually such a friendly bunch, could be so cold and calculating when it comes to breeding dogs who are clearly suffering.

Makes me want to set up a council and override it all. It's all so corrupt.
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