This has been interesting to read, and i love all the pics

So, what breeds generally arent dual purpose? Why have some breeds split, to where the show lines wouldnt be good workers? Thats what i dont get... coz isnt that part of the breed standard, to be 'fit for function'?

I prefer the working lines in the majority of breeds, and i love when they all look like the breed they are but dont look like clones of each other. There is a guy i know with 3 ESS's, they all look like springers but all look different The youngest is most definitely from working lines, he has little feathering and is smaller than the show springers you get. The middle one is a bit bigger (height), but small built also with little feathering. The oldest, is much bigger and well built... but also has little feathering... they all look like ESS's and all look like they would be great workers!

Oh, and there is BC who i see in the park all the time... he looks exactly like those pics of show BCs and he is huge! My aunt has working BCs for her sheep, and they are much smaller.

Show BCs are on the whole smaller than working dogs. They should be 21" at the shoulder according to the breed standard, yet when my ISDS dog is along most show dogs he looks very tall, yet he is exactly 21" tall. Wukee's sister is bigger than most male show dogs & their bloodlines are 1/2 ISDS based, 3/8 Obedience & 1/8 show dog

Skye comes from a show/working line, Drift is pure working line; their coats are completely different, Skyes is more of a rough coat, whereas Drifts is silkier (he doesn't tend to get burrs etc tangled in his!!
My friends 2 Collies are actually related to the ones in Moobli's link, and they look exactly the same very very short legged and big heads! they make Skye look really tall even though she is 21" at the shoulder (i believe breed standard)


Jann xx

My ISDS collie is enormous, last measure 23" and legs like a giraffe yet he is so light on his feet.

For me personally I'd choose working lines every time. I don't personally like the look of show collies they look overprocessed. Also as I compete at agility I like a dog with lots of working ability. Show line dogs do compete and some do well but mostly they seem
to lack the drive to get to the top.

I admit I have no knowledge of shepherding but I'm guessing similar things are important. I need my dogs to be agile, lightfooted, powerful, full of drive but also a willingness to work with a handler and to take commands. Most show line dogs in agility seem to lack a degree of focus and seem to lack fire in their eyes, something I'm very partial too.

Out of interest are there any agility people who have trained and competed with show and working lines? Have you noticed any difference?

I do agility with both of mine (don't compete though )
Skye my "show lines" Collie is very reliable and eager to please, she ignores everything going on around her when shes in the ring and i love training with her, she seems to float
Drift on the other hand can sometimes go to training and will focus completely; another time he will enter the ring and be away with the fairies He IS very fast, but not as accurate as Skye, but then he is younger and hasn't been doing it as long He is also a rescue (failed sheepdog) who was completely shut down when he went into rescue; and i think he's making up for his lost puppyhood now, and everything is at last fun for him

Jann xx

My Groenenedaels are the 'all rounders of the canine world -if you want to have a go at any doggy sport or hobby then get a BSD - they can do it all !

here's a clip of Bijou's dad he's an International Show Champion ( lives in Europe) but this clip truly demonstrates that there is no show work split in my breed !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIK55uqkByg

In Collies of course theres a third type, Sports dog.My preferance. Middle of the road WITH working DRIVE!

looks wise a large range, but good looking dogs , athletic.

most show BCs are quite diddy

I had every intention of doing agility with Celt----although I know he is not typical----there is no way he could have been competitive and he would have struggled to jump even the newer heights. He measured just one small jump. He never jumps for fun and very rarely jumps up.

His sister was out of lower classes and at the top in her first season! Excellent handler but cracking dog. She did that in large dog but has now been measured twice as well into medium.

My friends have 4 dogs with Black Robin Highlander as a sire, 3 are brill one is hard to motivate.

Luck of the draw I think but IMO you are more likely to get a winning dog by buying from agility breeders----or the local farm!

rune